EXCEPTIONAL BASS... tight? slow? fast? I have to feel it ? what's your definition? - Page 3 - diyAudio
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Old 18th April 2013, 10:04 AM   #21
Jay is offline Jay  Indonesia
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When I play orchestra through my speakers, the best one coming from a TL. But when I play music of sea waves containing low frequencies, I know exactly why I don't like TLs. In an orchestra through my TL, the lows just appears but in the sea waves recording it has no "definition". No soundstage, no feeling as if you can see the waves (well, I have been there in a small boat in the sea during high tide so I know the feeling )

Quality of bass cannot be separated from other higher frequency components (for example, brushes in drum hit contains high frequency also). They must appear at the same time (no phase lag) to sound good.

Headphone can be a reference of a good bass. Just a reference because something is still missing with headphones imo. They don't have the low level reverberation that should be there at the end of the bass note.
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Old 18th April 2013, 10:56 AM   #22
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There are two factors that determine the quality of bass reproduction. One is the room-speaker system, the other is the recording. A good speaker-room system should be capable of reproducing bass without any "boominess". Nevertheless, "boominess" is a characteristic property of the sound field in small rooms, so some recordings will and should sound "boomy". On a bad system all recordings will sound "boomy".
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Old 18th April 2013, 11:14 AM   #23
ratza is offline ratza  Romania
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lousymusician View Post
Good bass is when the bass sounds like a real instrument, not a dull thud in the bottom end of the music. The notes should have clear pitch and tone, and that tone should be consistent through the range of the instrument. An acoustic bass should sound like an acoustic bass, projecting the size of the instrument and the vibration of the wood. The pluck of the string should be integrated with the fundamental. You should hear the skin of the kick drum as well as feel the impact from it, and is should be distinct from . I want to hear all of what the bass is playing clearly enough that I could copy the bass line (if I could play bass).

Bill
I couldn't agree more. This is valid for the entire range of a loudspeaker. From my point of view, a loudspeaker should be compared with the real instrument that it attempts to reproduce, not with another loudspeaker.
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Old 18th April 2013, 11:38 AM   #24
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Good bass reproduction is achieved when it is seamlessly integrated, undetectable as a separate source with low audible distortions. Bass that does not detract from the music or draw attention to the speaker as a mechanical device. impact that should lend the instruments convincing weight and power, not booming one note resonance.
Audiophiles do not achieve the best bass for a very small room by ignoring reproduction of LF in favour of fast dry upper bass only, it is the road to long term dissatisfaction. Small speakers with no deep bass capability and a skilfully designed bass hump are good for two things, low budget and WAF.

Quality headphones, appropriately positioned and well designed active sealed box subwoofers and dipole bass can be very convincing as can some very large ported systems.
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Old 18th April 2013, 12:07 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by slr 5000 View Post
...best bass i ever heard was in a large 2 way i built using an eminence beta 15 sealed in 40l using a mini dsp programed with an lt circuit and powererd by icepower modules run in btl mode
Can you give a few more details or point me to the right webpage?

Just so happens I have some Beta15s, miniDSP and 40 litres around here somewhere ...

Thanks,
Jeff
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Old 18th April 2013, 12:11 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by ratza View Post
I couldn't agree more. This is valid for the entire range of a loudspeaker. From my point of view, a loudspeaker should be compared with the real instrument that it attempts to reproduce, not with another loudspeaker.
That notion implies that the goal of the mixing/mastering engineer is realism. I doubt it is. Just like not every painting tries to by photorealistic.
Furthermore, most recordings use instruments that are virtual. There is no counterpart in the real world other than what the mixing/mastering engineer heard.
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Old 18th April 2013, 12:25 PM   #27
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6x18" subs, 6x15" kick-bins, 12x 10" mids, and 5x 3" compression drivers, per side. All active, ~30kW amplification.

It'll flap your jeans at 10m, and when the bass sweeps downward, you can feel different parts of your body resonate.

Not mine, but I use the system pretty much every weekend.

Too much power is almost enough!!
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Old 18th April 2013, 12:45 PM   #28
fpitas is offline fpitas  United States
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Originally Posted by StigErik View Post
My definition of good bass is how it sound through high quality headphones.
Agreed. I judge not just the bass, but the overall sound of speakers by comparison with good headphones.

Last edited by fpitas; 18th April 2013 at 12:52 PM.
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Old 18th April 2013, 12:56 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by markus76 View Post
That notion implies that the goal of the mixing/mastering engineer is realism. I doubt it is. Just like not every painting tries to by photorealistic.
Furthermore, most recordings use instruments that are virtual. There is no counterpart in the real world other than what the mixing/mastering engineer heard.
Some is some isn't. Most Classical acoustic mixing/mastering uses deliberately reduced dynamic range to make it suitable for normal home listening conditions.
Pop is usually heavily compressed with far less dynamic range and is mostly synthetic.
it is probably more correct to say that the goal of acoustic mixing/mastering is to give the impression of a naturalistic sound within the limitations of the flawed stereo medium. Some artistic license accepted, sometimes to heighten the impression of realism, rather than an outright factual reproduction of what was captured at the microphones.
This is similar to how a skilful painter will accentuate or exaggerate the contours of hills to give the impression of the real height as seen by the eye. Paintings without this perspective exaggeration lack three dimensionality and look flat. Engineers have to play similar games with sound.
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Old 18th April 2013, 01:41 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by StigErik View Post
The problem is that almost nothing is recorded to sound like a real instrument. Recorded sound is always (with only a handful of exceptions) manipulated with dynamic compression, EQ, multiple microphones, artificial reverb and so on...
I think it is wrong to assume that every recording is manipulated in some way so that it is unuseful for evaluation of instruments. A good majority of the time the bass guitar is direct to the mixing board, and with the exception of leveling not much is done to it. That is the foundation of the mix itself.

Jazz and classical music are usually not manipulated much. The most manipulation I have seen on these two genre's is a very very mild compression of the entire mix so it is playable in our living rooms. Pop and R&B are a different story.
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