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Old 13th April 2013, 12:32 AM   #11
Jay is offline Jay  Indonesia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inductor View Post
Scary...
Not a good help, Jay.
Remember that OP does not understand crossover design. He wants a ready-made or proven design, BUT unfortunately he doesn't want to buy the expensive Scan-Speak tweeter. Yes, he wanted XT25 design IF any is available. But with such a woofer, XT25 will be a bottleneck imo, so may not be available. BUT, active crossover is doable for beginners, and most of the time they like the sound of active over passive. Of course it is not cheap either (so options are: Scan-speak tweeter, "active", fix the previous 2.5 clone,...)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inductor View Post
I think your picture shows the Scanspeak 18W/8535-00 frequency output, a driver that was considered one of the best in the world in the form of the ProAc Response 2.5 and shame that you could not use it in a passive crossover.
Do yo mean the clone? I believe the original ProAc woofer has different characteristics, especially to remove the breakup at roll-off frequency. If the cone is not made from carbon fibre, I believe the ENABLE approach can solve a little by adding extra weight to the cone edge.

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Originally Posted by Inductor View Post
The Vifa XT25TG30-04 tweeter crossed at high 3K/3K5 with a third order/fourth acoustic will have no sibilance from my point of view, but I understand is not (work) for newbie.
Yes it is hard to create sibilance from XT25. Sometimes you don't even hear it exits

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Originally Posted by Inductor View Post
you always turn to active as a way to run from more time/trouble when you don't know what you're doing.
You know exactly that it is the issue here

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Originally Posted by Inductor View Post
I'm saying that the design with no RLC notch is better option also,

Sometimes, and that was the case of the ProAc 2.5, peaks and roughness where a sonic advantage of the identity of the ProAc sound, against the flatness of Troels new 9500 tweeter crossover design, not a bad thing.
Honestly I thought so (But not me. I'm not going to buy such driver just to listen to the clone's midrange). May be it is the nature of the carbon fiber that the breakup is not so fatiguing. And from OP report, he didn't like the SIBILANCE of his previous clone, not the breakup, so his previous clone may be fixable and is one of the option available. I really like to see the clone crossover.
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Old 13th April 2013, 12:53 AM   #12
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Quote:
And from OP report, he didn't like the SIBILANCE of his previous clone, not the breakup, so his previous clone may be fixable and is one of the option available. I really like to see the clone crossover.
Jay
Is there another report or speaker that we are talking about (by OP) that I don't know of?!
I agree that some members just want a working/tested version of crossover to copy to their ongoing new project, I don't know if this is the case. Sometimes they don't bother to come back or much less to report a thank you.
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Old 13th April 2013, 07:54 AM   #13
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Hi guys,

Thanks for helping out. I appreciated it. i prefer a passive xover.

My xover for the 2.5 clone is as attached, which is the one from Troels' paper and the modification to the tweeter as well....removing the fluid and damp the center pole. The xover is clued under the cabinet. Maybe I'll remove them and use them for the 18/8535 and XT25TG combo. I'll take a photo once I removed them.

The 18w/8535 looks similar to the Vifa PL14WJ...see graph and compare to Jay's 18/8535 in post #9.

I have since removed the tweeter D2010/8513 and used it for the Proac 1SC clone and it sounds good. No sibilance at all. I have thought of putting the XT25TG onto the 2.5 clone but the hole doesn't fit.

I'll probably made a new cabinet similar to the Vifa PL14WJ-09-08 + XT25TG-30-04 from Troels website.

Thanks again.
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File Type: jpg pl14wj09-08e.jpg (93.8 KB, 262 views)
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Old 13th April 2013, 11:49 AM   #14
Dissi is offline Dissi  Switzerland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmchoong View Post
I'll probably made a new cabinet similar to the Vifa PL14WJ-09-08 + XT25TG-30-04 from Troels website.
That cabinet is only 11 litres and much too small for the SS woofer.

A simpler solution would be:
Replace the tweeter of the 2.5 clones by a Seas 22TAF/G. No modification of cabinet and crossover required.
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Old 13th April 2013, 01:18 PM   #15
Dissi is offline Dissi  Switzerland
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Originally Posted by Dissi View Post
No modification of cabinet and crossover required.
Not fully correct. The face plate of the Seas should fit, but the cutout holes are probably too small and need adjustment in order to mount the tweeter.
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Old 15th April 2013, 09:11 AM   #16
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This crossover is designed for the 2010/8513 which is a 8ohm tweeter and the 47R would drop it to about 6.9ohm. The XT25 is 4ohm that would be even under 4ohm in the 2-4Khz range. Also, the single 47R shunt resistor will be very far away of taming the peak at Fs. You`re going for a high order topology, which is good in this case, but you`ll achieve an acoustic LR4 at around 1.5Khz and below, I think that the peak might become audible. When you have your crossover in place, play a sweep 200Hz-5Khz and listen, if you hear the tweeter hissing ( I bet you will ), then you need an L-pad or a parallel RLC attached to it. I have tested both, L-pad won`t tame the resonance that much ( it could but shuntvalue will be less than 3.3ohm ). For the RLC - I have done many experiments, with the version I have values are R = 3.9, L = 1.0mH, C = 82uF. You can use a bipolar electrolytic cap and a 0.6mm wire coil with R = 0.5-0.6 and a 3.3ohm resistor to save on cash. This will flatten the peak and will make the XT25 a pretty good tweeter. I think that you could use the XT25 with a LR2 from 2.8-2.9Khz and LR4 from 2.2-2.3Khz.

Last edited by Mario Pankov; 15th April 2013 at 09:13 AM.
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Old 29th April 2013, 06:41 AM   #17
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Thanks for all the suggestions and advise. I need to put this project on hold.
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Old 15th May 2013, 01:31 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmchoong View Post
Has anyone done a scan speak 18w/8535 and a Vifa XT25TG-30-04 combination?
I started the same project.
18w/8535 + Vifa XT25TG-60-04 (two magnets)
I will make better than ProAc XO.
I did many speakers with different ring-radiator tweeters.
3rd order on tweeter hide many fine details.
Small trick is to use 2nd order + RLC filter on resonant frequency (500hz) to reduce distortions.
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Old 19th May 2013, 08:37 AM   #19
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One box is ready.
I will measure drivers on next week.
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File Type: jpg IMG_20130519_122847_измен.размеl.jpg (233.5 KB, 106 views)
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Old 25th July 2013, 09:10 AM   #20
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Hi Ursus82, do you mind sharing the XO design?
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