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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 22nd March 2013, 09:32 AM   #11
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Me thinks that is a matter of the crossover, which hasn't been investigated yet.
You just choose the passband then try to linearize it
Not to mention that a real hi-fi project needs to be 3 way, 'cos efficiency is dictated also by driver's diameter related to the frequency to be reproduced.
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Old 22nd March 2013, 02:53 PM   #12
SpirosZ is offline SpirosZ  Greece
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Quote:
Originally Posted by picowallspeaker View Post
Me thinks that is a matter of the crossover, which hasn't been investigated yet.
I plan to use a ready design from diysoundgroup https://www.circuitlab.com/circuit/w...12-delta12lfa/

Quote:
Originally Posted by picowallspeaker View Post
Not to mention that a real hi-fi project needs to be 3 way, 'cos efficiency is dictated also by driver's diameter related to the frequency to be reproduced.
Idealy I should be using a subwoofer but with a 12" 96db/w/m midbass I will probably need a couple huge 18" subwoofers that I have no room for. Therefore I will have to live with out a sub for the moment.


What I cannot figure out is how bass performance affects mid-highs. It doesn't look right to me and I don't think it's true.
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Old 22nd March 2013, 03:07 PM   #13
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Yes it does make sense, and also Jay seems very sensible in writing about speakers & Co.
You can watch the problem from various points, from the excursion POV or by the diameter, or by the efficiency as I told you ( me very humble & ignorant!).
Taking the excursion row: if the woofer is 'pumping' for reproducing the very low frequencies, imagine and guess what it can do to reproduce the mids...in the spare time ( modulation issue)
For the diameter : it's called 'pistonic range' and it's very narrow, determined
by the diameter and stiffness of the cone; outside its pistonic range, the speaker ....
For efficiency, you can derive from the freq response data of the manufacturer
and see what application could do a good job; you won't use it as a sub but for mid-wf application, then you can count on room gain .
I'd say why not ? TQWT or ML-TQWT ...but remember efficiency after you put it in the box and after filtering.
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Old 22nd March 2013, 03:29 PM   #14
SpirosZ is offline SpirosZ  Greece
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O.K.
It starts to make sense now.
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Old 22nd March 2013, 03:30 PM   #15
Jay is offline Jay  Indonesia
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Originally Posted by SpirosZ View Post
How is that happening?
I think it is due to how the cone has to move the air to produce low and high frequencies at the same time. It is always better if the driver has to produce limited frequency band only (sound is clearer and less muddy).

This is especially true when a small diameter woofer is "forced" to produce low frequencies with the help of enclosure. Here we will notice compromise in sensitivity, hence mid-range sonic. The bigger enclosure (especially vented) and the required stuffing will absorb some energy.

Many horn designs are actualy transmission line with extra horn to produce the mid-range. With horn shaped waveguide, less cone energy is required to push the air (to certain spl). This is where horn wins over classic TL.

Another way to restore the midrange (while also producing the lowest octave) is by putting the woofer in a shallow depth a-la MLTL. I like MLTL because basically it is a bookshelf (known with its good midrange) with a little extra bass extension.
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Old 22nd March 2013, 03:36 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by SpirosZ View Post
Is it possible to angle the front baffle (for toe-in) and not lose the TQWT loading?
Still, you have to give explanation of this sentence
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Old 22nd March 2013, 04:00 PM   #17
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Quote:
It is always better if the driver has to produce limited frequency band only (sound is clearer and less muddy).
Correct, I always preferred the sound of a three way than a two way.
A good three way sounds always more detailed in bass and low mids.
If you choose the crossover points at around 250-3000 the midrange can cover the most part of the human voice, and the mid can work in his frequency band with the least distortion.
If you look at the distortion plots of drivers, you'll see the highest distortion is in the bass.
So for a two way the bass/mid must also work in the frequency band with the highest distortion: no good for your mids.
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Last edited by danny_66; 22nd March 2013 at 04:04 PM.
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Old 22nd March 2013, 04:02 PM   #18
SpirosZ is offline SpirosZ  Greece
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Quote:
Originally Posted by picowallspeaker View Post
Still, you have to give explanation of this sentence
I don't know how to explain it better.
It's the front baffle that I am talking about (so you end up with a sloped and not rectangular enclosure).
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Old 22nd March 2013, 04:11 PM   #19
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Yes I understood that
The fact is that we are talking what happens to the back wave, not the front one
(indeed..... )
If the walls of the enclosure are not parallel, that's even better !
But it's not easy to make the enclosure ( only if you have access to a CNC router and have designer abilities to program the machine)

Looking at the crossover, well, I expect the whole 'thing' to have a little less sensitivity than the 96 dB/W/m.
The suggested BR box would then EQ the low end, by adding the reinforcement that comes out of the reflex duct.
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Old 22nd March 2013, 04:17 PM   #20
SpirosZ is offline SpirosZ  Greece
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danny_66 View Post
Correct, I always preferred the sound of a three way than a two way.
A good three way sounds always more detailed in bass and low mids.
If you choose the crossover points at around 250-3000 the midrange can cover the most part of the human voice, and the mid can work in his frequency band with the least distortion.
If you look at the distortion plots of drivers, you'll see the highest distortion in the bass.
So for a two way the bass/mid must also work in the frequency band with the highest distortion: no good for your mids.
I have decided that I will go with a constant directivity design.
That means midrange and tweeter directivity have to match precisely.
Usually those designs have crossover frequencies between 700-2500Hz depending on the midrange size.
One of my plans was with the Delta12LFa, Beyma 6MI90 midrange and SEOS6 or 8 with a Denovo CD and crossover frequencies at 500Hz and 2500Hz approximately.
That would be almost perfect as it would be ideal for a center channel as well. However I would have to design my own crossover for it and without measurement tools I'd rather stick to a ready made trusted design.
An other option would be a lower priced clone of the Daniel Hertz M1.
Perhaps in the future...
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