Invisible speakers: who has achieved, or experienced this? - Page 2 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Multi-Way

Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11th March 2013, 09:23 AM   #11
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
diyAudio Member
 
graaf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by fas42 View Post
Just to toughen up the requirements a bit, we won't count Ambiophonics and the like,

...

Also, no special, "doctored" recordings - has to "work" with conventional tracks ...

Frank
then nothing beats a flooder ie. an up-firing floor coupled speaker (UFFC)


Quote:
Originally Posted by fas42 View Post
and require at least, say 75%, of the treble content to come from a driver which is nominally directly facing the conventional listening postion ...
why? what's the point of such a requirement?
__________________
"high phooey and hystereo" - Yascha Heifetz
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th March 2013, 09:30 AM   #12
fas42 is offline fas42  Australia
diyAudio Member
 
fas42's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NSW, Australia
Blog Entries: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by graaf View Post
then nothing beats a flooder ie. an up-firing floor coupled speaker (UFFC)




why? what's the point of such a requirement?
Because, in my experience, poor qualities in the treble reproduction are the primary cause for the "illusion" to fail. If you have the treble transducer facing away this can hide a multitude of sins, because the direct sound of the driver "working" is not heard.

If with your flooder (nice term, ), you stood next to it so the treble content was firing directly at your head, would it be obvious where the speaker was ...?

Frank
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th March 2013, 09:38 AM   #13
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
It's not an uncommon goal. Even sound who's image focusses on the very space taken by the speaker itself can be made to sound as if the speaker is just a vision with no substance, and the sound is hanging there on it's own.

You can stare at the speaker and try to identify its existence, listening for some kind of sound signature and cast your mind how you will, but it actually looks as if it has nothing to do with the sound.

This doesn't happen with most ordinary speakers.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th March 2013, 09:50 AM   #14
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
diyAudio Member
 
graaf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by fas42 View Post
If with your flooder (nice term, ),
well, actually it's not "mine": http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi...ml#post1599729


Quote:
Originally Posted by fas42 View Post
you stood next to it so the treble content was firing directly at your head, would it be obvious where the speaker was ...?
it would and it shoud that's how our auditory system works - it's the psychophysics of sound
__________________
"high phooey and hystereo" - Yascha Heifetz
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th March 2013, 09:53 AM   #15
diyAudio Member
 
Alex from Oz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Canberra, Australia
G'day Frank,

Sonically invisible speakers? You bet. Easier than one might think.

EnABL'd drivers
EnABL'd enclosures
EnABL'd ports
Ground control pig tails

Put them together and the box disappears sonically in a normal room.

Cheers,

Alex
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th March 2013, 10:15 AM   #16
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
diyAudio Member
 
graaf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex from Oz View Post
EnABL'd drivers
EnABL'd enclosures
EnABL'd ports
Ground control pig tails
Is this for serious?
__________________
"high phooey and hystereo" - Yascha Heifetz
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th March 2013, 10:21 AM   #17
diyAudio Member
 
mondogenerator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: City Of Villans
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllenB View Post
It's not an uncommon goal. Even sound who's image focusses on the very space taken by the speaker itself can be made to sound as if the speaker is just a vision with no substance, and the sound is hanging there on it's own.

You can stare at the speaker and try to identify its existence, listening for some kind of sound signature and cast your mind how you will, but it actually looks as if it has nothing to do with the sound.

This doesn't happen with most ordinary speakers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by graaf View Post
well, actually it's not "mine": http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi...ml#post1599729

I agree with these posts. Depth of a RHS heavy chirp or trill is my interpretation of what i hear in my example, be it ambio or stereo. That is to say the image is further or nearer than the tweeter, but the direction of origin is obvious.


it would and it shoud that's how our auditory system works - it's the psychophysics of sound
exactly.
__________________
Every new piece of knowledge pushes something else out of my brain - Homer.....................Simpson

Last edited by mondogenerator; 11th March 2013 at 10:25 AM. Reason: apologies. Posted inside a quote by mistake
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th March 2013, 10:41 AM   #18
diyAudio Member
 
Alex from Oz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Canberra, Australia
Quote:
Originally Posted by graaf View Post
Is this for serious?
Deadly serious.

Cheers,

Alex
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th March 2013, 10:54 AM   #19
fas42 is offline fas42  Australia
diyAudio Member
 
fas42's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NSW, Australia
Blog Entries: 11
Cheers, Alex ...

I would suggest that people who haven't done so, go check what Pano actually described in the link I gave in the first post -- in essence he was able to walk almost completely around a front facing horn speaker, and even directly in front of it he was unable to mentally connect the soundscape he was hearing with the driver directly facing him: this is the level of "invisibility" I'm talking about ...

Frank
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th March 2013, 10:57 AM   #20
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: UK
If you found your speakers turning invisible at some point, does it automatically mean that they were 'right'? I think we can dial up some pretty convincing illusions on demand if we play with home theatre surround sound, for example, but no one would claim it was a holographic reproduction of a concert hall. However, if there is no other information available, the listener could easily be forgiven for thinking that it was. You can even create a surround sound illusion from two speakers using DSP, and I think I've even done something similar accidentally when messing up the phase correction with my active crossover DSP. The effect can be a very convincing 'ambience' from two speakers, but at the cost of destroying the intentional dryness of a recording. However, without knowing how it should sound, the listener might think they've struck audio gold, only to find it an unsatisfying system ultimately. And I presume that by playing with room treatments, dipoles, open baffle speakers, side-firing woofers and all those tricks, it might be possible to create some sort of illusion without DSP, but again, would it necessarily be 'right' in the long run?
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Extreme slew rates like 200V/us or 300v/us no use in general but can it be achieved? rhythmsandy Solid State 22 11th February 2013 04:16 PM
FeONIC Invisible Speakers Mapper Full Range 4 27th October 2010 03:20 PM
Invisible mode doesn't work head_spaz Forum Problems 2 24th August 2009 01:02 AM
Invisible Audio Solutions from Emo Labs angeloitacare Multi-Way 2 23rd January 2009 06:18 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 02:18 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2