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Old 7th March 2013, 07:20 PM   #1
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Default Beyma 12p80nd + TPL-150

I bought recently a pair of Beyma 12p80nd, and combine it with Beyma TPL150. Crossover from Beyma, model 212, crossing at 1,2khz.
I use the midwoofer in a cabinet with a port on the back side, cabinet size 40cm x 40cm, x 90cm. Based on information from a site in norway, i was expecting specially excellent lower midrange.



Quote:
HiFiForum.nu - Beyma TPL-150H ihop med vadå...?

Petty speaks wise words. , I would say 12P80Nd (note not "Fe"!). they are wonderfully efficient and ultra dynamic elements. I've never heard anything like in the case of transients and "cut" in the sound. Nd-magnets have a much greater magnetic stability, and in the case 12P80Nd so is their pole pieces very well saturated and very stable and resistant to eddy-currents on stuff . Due to its ultra-strong magnetic system will answer them very nicely on the current drive, which probably can get them than a little djeafligare in terms of impulse response and dynamics. They sound also very neutral (to be effective) and correct. They are unique elements simply. Regards John.


Beyma Tpl-150 - Page 5 - Audio Voice Acoustics

I have had time to play around with the new 12orna, . They are not even an iota of recorded yet, does not go nearly as deep as the 12P1000Ndsom sat in the same boxes two days ago. But what comes out! This is the most transient I've ever heard, with a resolution and with a tone that is purely amazing, I have not even heard a field coil element with the poise and sense of effortless at the base and the naturalness of voices and foundations in guitars and so on. I definitely think that anyone thinking of a little more TH or maybe kvartsvågspipor, or perhaps real horns, should include these elements in their thoughts. Then they can man be the foundation for a new model, a "supermoc" perhaps? TPL treble in originalmocarna included waveguide now, which enhance the sensitivity of 102dB, we need, then just find a nice 24 "or maybe 30" to the bottom? Ingvar

Cord Children: Yes, it's a horrible fear of driving to work in the morning. Mathias! After a few days of listening, I think: the resolution, just like the version without the horns, incredible, välinspelade strings and percussion is ridiculous live and recordings that feels a little loud will be nicer then the element is completely free from ringing. Really bad recordings are however quite olyssningsbara when the treble is extremely revealing. Some boards feel a little # 8221, call # 8221; in the sound, probably due to the extremely low distortion, a compression driver is of course much higher 1st and 2nd harmonic distortion which adds some warmth and softness that are typically very pleasant to listen to. The combination QW-1 and the treble is really fun to listen to, now, are both basses to be recorded as well and they perform an amazing base and an addictive intimacy and life of the votes. Mathias: I have not really the plant, mocarna was too small, sometimes you could not find them if no music was played, it thus becomes larger versions, but there are advanced plans for a baby sister, mlk, (go ahead and guess! ) Hornta! Crossover 1200-1300, 2nd order LR, schedule is on PM, forgot to answer yours. Ingvar

But these excell as well as woofers. I have not much lower bass output, i guess below 50,60hz , they go out of steam, but what a performance in the range they cover. Just amazing !! They outperform by far my expectations. Very clean, strong bass, correct timbre and neutrality , transients to die for, these are really really great fun !!

They make for a very satifying 2way monitor for highest demands.

Maibe someone can help me to calculate the size of a ported cab, to have a littlebit more lower bass output. If they would go strong down to 40hz, that would be great.

Angelo

Last edited by angeloitacare; 7th March 2013 at 11:28 PM.
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Old 7th March 2013, 08:52 PM   #2
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Hi Angelo,
Nice 12" mid you have there,
you will need a woofer.
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Old 7th March 2013, 09:06 PM   #3
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Beyma 12P80Nd
Good in a 4-10L BR enclosure (6.4 L 90_Hz tunning).
More details for different applications Martinsson's Blog - THAM12
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Old 7th March 2013, 10:17 PM   #4
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Angelo,

Consider using the 12p80nd with its Qtc=0.15 as a true midbass in a sealed well stuffed enclosure, and adding a large efficient woofer at 80-100Hz. This type of 3-way would optimize the midbass(sealed) while minimizing Dopler type IMD from mixing 1.2Khz with any bass cone movement. Mark Levinson uses the 12p80nd with the similar constructed Beyma 18p80nd in his Daniel Hertz M1 $100K speaker. Using your TPL 150H 80 x 30 horn HEIL would deliver good controlled directivity over the 1200Hz Xover range to the 12P80nd.

Large radius cabinet edges that minimize diffraction would allow you to beat the $100K M1 sonics.
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File Type: jpg Daniel Hertz M1.jpg (100.3 KB, 2719 views)
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Old 7th March 2013, 11:31 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LineSource View Post
Angelo,

Consider using the 12p80nd with its Qtc=0.15 as a true midbass in a sealed well stuffed enclosure, and adding a large efficient woofer at 80-100Hz. This type of 3-way would optimize the midbass(sealed) while minimizing Dopler type IMD from mixing 1.2Khz with any bass cone movement. Mark Levinson uses the 12p80nd with the similar constructed Beyma 18p80nd in his Daniel Hertz M1 $100K speaker. Using your TPL 150H 80 x 30 horn HEIL would deliver good controlled directivity over the 1200Hz Xover range to the 12P80nd.

Large radius cabinet edges that minimize diffraction would allow you to beat the $100K M1 sonics.
Interesting. I am thinking to make a small production for local commerce, there is a small audioshop in town, which sells Wilson Watt Puppys for us$ 35k a pair, used.....so i think i will have some space there to show mine. But size is a issue. I want to keep the speakers slim. Maibe using a sub on the side rather than on the front panel would help. Maibe a backloaded horn would help getting more bass output, without sub needed ?
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Old 8th March 2013, 01:20 AM   #6
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I do not believe you can get a great sounding slim speaker if you start with a 12" midbass.

For the best sound a midrange needs several inches of space with fiberglass on all sides to absorb the rear cone wave. Hence, a 12" midbass favors a 16" - 18" wide cabinet. The woofer can be located much closer to the cabinet side walls with little sonic loss if the cabinet is well braced. The M1 cabinet uses this spacing ... air around the midbass, woofer frame against the sides. Baffle step compensation of a 20" wide cabinet is ~250Hz, and the woofer floor gain can sometimes get height adjusted to reduce BSC for "in-room" placement.


The Levinson Daniel Hertz M1 has many positive reviews and BUZZ. A M1 clone with the TPL150H for say US$ $15K/pair should draw significant interest. The audio world would be very interested in comparing a M1 type cabinet with the TPL150H tweeter vs. the real $100K Daniel Hertz with CP385Nd CD and TD164 horn. Daniel Hertz M1 H=60" W=22" D=18.5"
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Old 8th March 2013, 01:48 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LineSource View Post
I do not believe you can get a great sounding slim speaker if you start with a 12" midbass.

For the best sound a midrange needs several inches of space with fiberglass on all sides to absorb the rear cone wave. Hence, a 12" midbass favors a 16" - 18" wide cabinet. The woofer can be located much closer to the cabinet side walls with little sonic loss if the cabinet is well braced. The M1 cabinet uses this spacing ... air around the midbass, woofer frame against the sides. Baffle step compensation of a 20" wide cabinet is ~250Hz, and the woofer floor gain can sometimes get height adjusted to reduce BSC for "in-room" placement.


The Levinson Daniel Hertz M1 has many positive reviews and BUZZ. A M1 clone with the TPL150H for say US$ $15K/pair should draw significant interest. The audio world would be very interested in comparing a M1 type cabinet with the TPL150H tweeter vs. the real $100K Daniel Hertz with CP385Nd CD and TD164 horn. Daniel Hertz M1 H=60" W=22" D=18.5"
I have not heard the Beyma CP385Nd CD and TD164 horn, but based on all Beyma speakers i have heard, i can imagine these sound excellent. But i can hardly imagine any compression driver, even from Beyma, can come close to the performance of the TPL150. I didnt know the Daniel Hertz M1 uses the 12p80nd. Based on the performance of this midwoofer, i fully understand the positive reviews. I am not interested in cloning anyone, but want to develop something of my own. I do not want to add a woofer, but get as much extension of the 12p80nd as possible. I want to keep it two ways, and rather small sized, for small rooms. Maibe a 60l bass reflex, with the ports on the backside, would be a good solution ? or a BL horn ? And i want the TPL150 bipole. Sounds better, moro holographic and 3d to me.

Click the image to open in full size.

Last edited by angeloitacare; 8th March 2013 at 02:13 AM.
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Old 8th March 2013, 06:04 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by angeloitacare View Post
...Maibe a 60l bass reflex, with the ports on the backside, would be a good solution ?
For all that was said, that's not a good solution. (look @graph below)
LineSource, I agree about the concept and like very much the pics/loudspeaker, also I very much appreciate the ingenuity of Angelo.
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File Type: jpg BEYMA 12P80Nd, VB = 60.0 L, FB = 50.0 Hz.jpg (47.3 KB, 2527 views)
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Old 8th March 2013, 09:31 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LineSource View Post
Large radius cabinet edges that minimize diffraction would allow you to beat the $100K M1 sonics.
Do you think the edge shape would have that kind of influence ?

Like something like this ?


Triad Cinema Reference CR-1 Loudspeaker Preview


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Old 8th March 2013, 12:36 PM   #10
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I have a fair deal of experience with Beyma TPL150 and TPL150H. I much prefer TPL150H with the waveguide over the standard TPL150.

1.2 kHz is too low XO for both of them if you seek ultimate performance. In my opinion 1.5 to 2 kHz is more appropriate.

Also - both drivers benefit from removing the rear chamber and felt damping pad, and let the rear side exit into a large damped chamber. THD is reduced by almost 20 dB by doing this.
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Last edited by StigErik; 8th March 2013 at 12:40 PM. Reason: typos
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