Are you using the flat front plate TPL-150, or the 80H * 40V horn loaded TPL-150H?
What crossover frequency and electrical slopes(circuits) are you using?
With the horn loaded TPL-150H crossovers between 1300Hz and 1600Hz are considered the "best compromise" range with the 12P80ND-V2.
At 1300Hz the 12P80ND-V2 polar pattern is close to the 80H polar on the TPL-150H horn, but some listeners believe that high frequency details are negatively affected. A steeper slope BW3 or LR4 crossover helps.
At 1600Hz crossovers, very few listeners complain about the TPL-150H sound quality, but as you noticed, the 12P80ND-V2 polar dispersion is below the 80-degrees of the TPL-150H horn. A steeper slope BW3 or LR4 crossover also helps.
BW3/BW3 at 1400Hz models well in simulation, only good ears can judge.
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An interesting thought and idea
Use a small sealed box with mechanical rollof for the mid / mid-bass, then an active plate amp on the bass with some tunability in room, this could be an excellent system
Hmmm.
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The "BMF-1" speaker from Tweek Geeks is one example of a similar TM-W bi-amp design. A sealed tapered volume behind the 12" midbass significantly reduces box resonances. The BMF uses side-side counter-force woofers for reduced vibration. A high power bass amplifier with good equalization supports the excellent transients of sealed woofers. It takes two 18" woofers like the Peavey LoRider18 to match the efficiency of the Beyma 12P80NdV2!
"Make a Wish Foundation"
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right now I'm crossing TPL-150H and 12P80ND-V2 @ 1655hz LR4. I've tested a dozen of different crossing points. the best for 12P80ND-V2 is 1400-1450hz but TPL-150H loses some of its sparkles when crossed that low. I thought I may be able to add an Aurum Cantus G1 from 7-8khz above TPL-150H but that may ruin the simplicity of speaker
BTW I'm using Hypex DLCP which gives me 6 channels of active crossing and eq in total. I use Hypex NC500 amps as well
@adason
I have 6FE200 in stock and tested it. It sound no way around 12P80ND. it's an animal of different planet. cheap good driver but not in the league of something like 12P80ND. the Faital Pro 10PR410 also sounded very sweet. 8PR155 is also a good candidate but lacks some sensitivity
Interesting designs, I feel I should try one out on my JBL 15".
I have the JBL E-120. I did not think much of it since it doesn't produce enough solid midbass down to 70Hz for my taste. And its mids is pretty garbled compared to a compression driver. The TPL-150 has benefits over a dome tweeter, but sounds a bit plastic in direct comparison with a RAAL. I will save the JBL E-120 for an electric guitar cabinet and the TPL-150 for... future kitchen radio?
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I don't think a horn or waveguide will solve this. As I understand the physics involved, at frequencies where dispersion of a driver is wide a horn or waveguide helps reducing that dispersion to the coverage angle. Of course long horns also help loading the driver and other aspects, but in terms of dispersion I believe at frequencies where the driver is already beaming the horn is of little effect. So horn/waveguide could help if you use a different driver...which is not what you are after.
I am also interested in the 10PR410. Would you mind describing what you liked/disliked about this combo? At what frequency where you xo?
I've been also thinking through 8-10-12" mids with the TPL-150H. I hope this coming year I will have time to actually do stuff. Anyways, my take is 12"s are going to have this beaming problem you describe.
An interesting 10" seems 18Sound 10NDA610: designed as midrange, 102dB sensitivity, very low 0.06mH Le, super strong motor. My intent is to xo at 2kHz and it is probably too high for this driver, but might be great at 1.8kHz.
The 10PR410 is the other one I've been eyeing.
Among 8" generally sensitivity becomes lowish. MTM comes to mind and so do the lobing concerns with such large drivers. Some say the audibility of this effect is overstated, so I'm in the process of trying it out with a couple of 5" I have around. Or else use a bigger amp on the mids. B&C 8PE21 and Faital 8PR155 top my list. Other than low sensitivity, what do you think of the 8PR155 as compared to the 12P80Nd?
One interesting 8" alternative I've been looking into are full rangers such as Lowthers or Tang Band W8-1772. I've noticed their super low Le and people highlight how good the Lowthers' midrange is...
BTW: Were you designing a 3-way? Can't recall.
10PR410 is a very good driver. it's heavy but sound really good and accurate. you'll have more directivity control up to 1600-1700hz and if you cross TPL at this, it will sound very good at higher notes. the only negative point about this combination is that 10PR410 lacks some dBs comparing to 12P80ND-V2 and 12P80ND-V2 has a little bit better lower-midrange all in all.
I think using TPL-150H or TPL-200 (without horn) is a good choice for 10PR410 as the sensitivity will match
Thanks for the input. Since it sounds good to 1600-1700Hz, which is where you'd like to xo to the TPL, and considering the horizontal dispersion at those frequencies appears to be also a good match to the TPL, it seems your "only" limitation is sensitivity - I guess you are going with passive xo. Have you tried MTM? I realize common wisdom suggests center to center spacing will be so large that lobing will be an issue, but if you have the two 10PR410 it might be worth the test. I have been reading comments suggesting the audibility of large spacing is not as severe as models suggest. This is a path I will be exploring in the next weeks.
I have the TPL150H, AE TD15M 15" and B&C 6PEV13 6.5" mid. To match the 6.5" directivity pattern I'd have to XO @2.5kHz. I have 2 digital miniDSP 2x4 units to use as stereo active XOs. I using modular enclosures to allow easy swapping out of midrange drivers. Waiting for my outdoor shade tree woodshop to warm up and dry out 
Not cutting MDF or plywood in my living room lol.
Not cutting MDF or plywood in my living room lol.Another one to consider is the newly available AE TD8M. I don't see it on their website yet but there facebook page has it as now available.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Vapor Audio has crossover TPL-150H @ 1050hz 12dB/octave. has anyone any experience crossing this driver that low? if this could be done the beaming of midrange would not by a problem anymore
VAPOR AUDIO :: Exquisite Sound >> Arcus
VAPOR AUDIO :: Exquisite Sound >> Arcus
Dave,
I think it's a compromised design. In my book not necessarily a bad one, but the designer wanted to do a 2-way, which is inherently compromised.
Some time back I exchanged with the designer. You might notice he uses Raal tweeters in his designs but this one. The reason is he could get that low (he told me 1.1kHz, FWIW), which he couldn't with Raals. His tradeoff was crossing it this low to the woofer. The speaker probably can't play as loud as other designs with this tweeter and higher xo before distortion rises, but maybe not audible in home environment.
As discussed in this thread, the tpl-150h has a resonance around 1.8kHz that we try to avoid. But frankly haven't heard the Arcus to judge how it sounds.
If you are in the US maybe Vapor can arrange an audition for you.
Where are you at in your search for a midrange for the TPL? I've been too busy at work and decided to do my midbass section first so to have subs, midbass and tweeter decided and then try alternatives for the midrange. So quite interested in your developments.
Regards
Lewinski,
Actually I have almost come to a firm idea that TPL and 12P80ND is not a perfect combination. the beaming is always a problem. If 12P80ND is crossed 1700-1800hz (which TPL will like) the beaming will be a problem. if you cross them lower about 1100-1200hz then the TPL will loose some of the higher notes and sparkles and the power handling will be limited as well. using Faital Pro 10PR410 is a better choice I'm gonna build and test in coming months. Faital Pro 8PR155 is also a good choice but lack the efficiency. by using it the overall sensitivity of speaker will be around 96-97dB which is fine.
Regards,
By bad design, I meant it doesn't sound good at 1000Hz. It is not like a good compression driver that can be hornloaded all the way down to 500Hz with a big enough horn. 1600-1800Hz is better for this driver.
When I first heard about this design I tried it with the JBL E-120 I have laying around, which is supposed to be similar to the Beyma 12P80ND. What I heard from the JBL was just garbage sound quality in the midrange, so it will be used as it was intended, in an electric guitar cabinet. I have not invested in a Beyma 12P80ND because I don't think it is much better.
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Thanks for the very useful info! I am trying to xo at 2000Hz, but it's good to know that 1700 and up is good.
How much of an issue is lobbing in your case? Generally accepted principles suggest center to center between the TPL-150H and a 12" at 1700Hz would cause severe lobbing. But maybe that's not as audible of an issue?
Another 10" midrange to consider is 18Sound 10NDA610, with about 102 dB sensitivity. Expensive, though. And the potential issue with lobbing is a concern of mine, on paper. Hence the value of your first hand experience with this.
Regards
Thank you. I see what you mean. I don't have experience with compression drivers, but my understanding from those who do is that a CD can cover 800Hz and up, but they generally aren't superb at the top 1 or 2 octaves so they use another CD for that range, or a coaxial CD. So something like one of the larger SEOS horns with a coax CD and a 12" or 15" woofer below 600-700Hz. But then it's a 3-way, and in my view still a compromise in the region under 80Hz or so
A personal view, of course!