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Old 8th March 2013, 02:53 PM   #11
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Default TPL needs 3 way or line array?

Hi Angelo,

I agree with StigErik ( only fools disagree!),
Use the Beyma horn (or the Autotech Polish horn) for the TPL, crossover at 1.8KHz or there abouts, any lower and it sounds a bit stressed.

This sadly eliminates a 12 inch mid bass as it will beam too much up high.

You could use an 8 inch (PHL are great) or at the most a 10 inch (Volt or PHL) and then crossover to one or two Beyma bass driver(s)?

As an off the wall ( !) suggestion.... If you really want to stick to a two way with the Beyma 12 inch, how about using four 12 inch drivers Beyma's per speaker, wired for 8 Ohms will give you a 6dB gain in sensitivity, this will be a great match with the horn loaded TPL.
You could have a two piece cabinet, three twelve incher's in the lower section, approx 1 meter high. Then another cabinet with the TPL horn and the last 12 incher above it.

To load the bass / mid...I love open baffle,( see attached pic) if you have the space behind the speakers.
If not, go for sealed and use Eq, avoid ports and back loaded horns like the plague!
Hope this helps!
Cheers
Derek.
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Old 14th March 2013, 06:21 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by angeloitacare View Post
I bought recently a pair of Beyma 12p80nd, and combine it with Beyma TPL150.
Me too.
I'm not in your league though.
My slow paced, largely experimental build: My 1st HE build (Beyma)
Really great drivers. I will probably ultimately use subwoofer(s) to cover <50Hz.
My lounge has a big dip at 45Hz and peak at about 30Hz. I tuned to 45 Hz so I get sufficient bass down to 30Hz without subwoofer.
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Old 15th March 2013, 07:25 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StigErik View Post
I have a fair deal of experience with Beyma TPL150 and TPL150H. I much prefer TPL150H with the waveguide over the standard TPL150.

1.2 kHz is too low XO for both of them if you seek ultimate performance. In my opinion 1.5 to 2 kHz is more appropriate.

Also - both drivers benefit from removing the rear chamber and felt damping pad, and let the rear side exit into a large damped chamber. THD is reduced by almost 20 dB by doing this.
Is TPL150H, chamber and felt removed, in large damped enclosure better than TPL150 dipole?

I wonder how much quality we sacrifice by crossing as low as 1.2kHz.
Less of a problem with the TPL150H than the TPL150?
The 12P80Nd + TPL150H seems to be a very nice combination.
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Old 15th March 2013, 11:09 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnc View Post
Me too.
I'm not in your league though.
My slow paced, largely experimental build: My 1st HE build (Beyma)
Really great drivers. I will probably ultimately use subwoofer(s) to cover <50Hz.
My lounge has a big dip at 45Hz and peak at about 30Hz. I tuned to 45 Hz so I get sufficient bass down to 30Hz without subwoofer.
I am testing and listening the TPL150 now in combination with the 12p80nd without waveguide, and with the back open. But different to previous listening, i am using as power amp a Classé Audio DR3b. The impression i have, is that with some music treble sounds a little harsh, almost agressive. Hard to say to what to attribute it, many factors involved. Maibe its the recording, different amp, wave guide missing... who knows.
My main concern is however to make a cabinet, that permits lower bass extension. A backloaded horn seems to be the way to go......probably i will make a design with the horn mouth on the front side, and the backchamber no.2, as shown here :

http://www.ryboxhorn.de/images/Vorkammertyp01.pdf

Last edited by angeloitacare; 15th March 2013 at 11:12 PM.
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Old 16th March 2013, 05:57 AM   #15
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What about transmission line or TQWT?
Locally we were contemplating a 2.5way TQWT and I think it is a good option.
Perhaps with an enclosure like this for the two 12P80Nd (TPL in a separate section above):
Click the image to open in full size.

I'm very inexperienced but the TPL150H, chamber removed in large damped enclosure makes the most sense to me theoretically.
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Old 16th March 2013, 10:12 AM   #16
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Angelo,

A 30 / 60 /90 polar SPL measurement of your Beyma 12P80Nd could save the world!

I lied. It would just allow owners to better select a Xover frequency.
The Daniel Hertz M1 claims a 18db Xover at 1600 Hz to the 60 x 40 tweeter horn. (1800 hz on first production). A 60 degree tweeter polar pattern horn has evolved from "man cave" wierd to small apartment cool. A 90x40 tweeter polar remains my favorite.

If you build a 1600Hz to 50Hz rear horn I would expect smeared high frequencies from the horn mouth, and dopler IMD from mixing a 1600Hz Flute on a 50Hz bass tone. A stuffed T-iine or MLTL absorbs rear cone highs, but the Qts=0.15 has some challenges.

Low-A on a Grand Piano is 27.5 Hz.

Last edited by LineSource; 16th March 2013 at 10:19 AM.
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Old 16th March 2013, 10:38 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnc View Post
What about transmission line or TQWT?
Locally we were contemplating a 2.5way TQWT and I think it is a good option.
Perhaps with an enclosure like this for the two 12P80Nd (TPL in a separate section above):
Click the image to open in full size.

I'm very inexperienced but the TPL150H, chamber removed in large damped enclosure makes the most sense to me theoretically.
thats a interesting idea. Simple to build....
can anyone make the math for the 12p80nd ?
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Old 21st March 2013, 05:31 PM   #18
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This site has some useful info and calculators: mh-audio.nl - Home

Are you quite happy with the Beyma Crossover as it is?
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Old 21st March 2013, 05:35 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnc View Post
This site has some useful info and calculators: mh-audio.nl - Home

Are you quite happy with the Beyma Crossover as it is?
hi John

no, i am not happy with the crossover. I suspect it is the reason for the harshness of the TPL-150. Listening right now again with my big system, and there the Beyma sounds sweet and without harshness at all. Crossover point is the same.
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Old 30th March 2013, 02:06 PM   #20
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Yesterday i made a new experiment. I just replaced the lower midrange horn of my big system, and inserted the 12p80nd. It was that big fun, that i listened music the whole afternoon. Since the efficiency is the same as the TPL150, no Lpad needed. Just amazing, clean, undistored and BIG sound. What is remarkable, is how the position makes such a big difference. Playing as previously almost nearfield, sounds not even close as good, as placing the cabs as they are now. As incredible as it might appear, but the Beyma 12p80nd as is sounds much better than my lower midrange horn. The distortion is amazingly low. Luis Armstrong Live in Chicago sounds scaringly life like, almost as being there.
The core is really the TPL150, with the 12p80nd. Only add a powerful sub, and you are done. Your wildest dreams of high-end audio come true. No kidding !!
Anyone wants to buy my lower midrange horn ?

Click the image to open in full size.

Last edited by angeloitacare; 30th March 2013 at 02:11 PM.
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