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Old 13th May 2013, 09:17 PM   #131
pk is offline pk  Denmark
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Hi Rewind,

Thanks for you reply!

Your impressions regarding the Beyma TPL-150(H) resembles mine. The Beyma TPL simply sounds more relaxed and natural relative to the compression drivers I have tried so far. I was especially annoyed by the (over) pronounced t- and s- sounds I occationally got when listening especially to female voices. Some recordings simply were unlistenable with the compression drivers - at least the ones I have tried.

Best regards
Peter

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rewind View Post
Yes, I was very impressed by the CD10ND, but it was a little too intense. Very detailed, and airy, but it was like it wanted too much which resulted in some distortions in the sound. I prefer the TPL-150 as a solution to get rid of distortions. Don't disregard the cheaper ironmagnet Beyma 1".

The older CP380/M, that apparently avantgarde uses or used to use, has a more fuller upper midrange sound than the CD10ND, and by upper midrange I mean around 1kHz and upwards. CP380/M sounds more grown up, less toyish, but I remember I preferred the CD10ND. In the end, they were so similar, when dialled in correctly.

I had a Behringer CX3400 analog active XO that is not very precise. I would guess 850-900 Hz, but not lower than that, at least not in the smallest horn of the A-G Trio. In that horn, I get a very bad distortion sound if I push the CD10ND too low, i.e. lower than 600Hz.

Nice that you liked my "impressions"!

J
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Old 14th May 2013, 07:22 AM   #132
Rewind is offline Rewind  Sweden
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A question to the TPL users. What amp is best to drive it? I read it goes down to 2 ohm which is bad for tube amps. My true ribbon really heats up the 2A3 amp and I think it causes distortions. Something more powerful is needed for a true ribbon.I have not tested the TPL with tube amps yet, but I suspect it to be the case for the TPL as well.
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Old 14th May 2013, 07:35 AM   #133
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The impedance of the TPL itself is ~5 Ohms flat, so it is very easy to drive.
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Old 14th May 2013, 07:50 AM   #134
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Example simulation of 12P80Nd in an aperodic ported cabinet showing the modest bass shelf to extend a Fs=45Hz, Qts=0.15 speaker down to ~80Hz.

Room gain which can complement a bass shelf sometimes plays a role in getting a flat response at these midbass frequencies.
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Old 14th May 2013, 08:26 AM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LineSource View Post
Example simulation of 12P80Nd in an aperodic ported cabinet showing the modest bass shelf to extend a Fs=45Hz, Qts=0.15 speaker down to ~80Hz.

Room gain which can complement a bass shelf sometimes plays a role in getting a flat response at these midbass frequencies.
Excellent! Could you kindly model the same for an MLTL and a TQWT too, please...?
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Old 14th May 2013, 11:09 AM   #136
Rewind is offline Rewind  Sweden
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About the Liberty 8 12". From what I read they sound identical to a E-120, but with a fresh magnet. Some say the E-120 looses its edge after a year because the magnet weakens. It is designed to be a guitar speaker. A very bright and sensitive guitar speaker. Not sure it should be used in hifi. Guitar speakers usually smoothens out harsh sounds that a hifi speaker would produce correctly, but bad sounding on live guitar. The Liberty 8 and the E-120 seem to be for guitar players with a certain style only. Maybe the style of careful picking of the strings, not to produce any bad sounds.

Last edited by Rewind; 14th May 2013 at 11:12 AM.
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Old 14th May 2013, 11:11 AM   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rewind View Post
A question to the TPL users. What amp is best to drive it?
I have drived it with 3 different amps.

Viva Solista Tube amp : shy treble.
Hiraga Le Monstre : the best amp to drive tpl. Unfortunately , too little power ( thats why i sold it )
Classé Audio DR3b : too much treble, and harsh.
Next amp, i will try, is a 300b based tube amp.

amps that might combine well : Satri Bakoon, and First Watt.

What i like of the 12p80nd over the LM555/38", is the low frequency extension. It sounds more integrated. But is also more natural. And wider disperson / matching with TPL. The LM555 sounds more precise, more defined, detailled. I will keep both, but work in the next few months to optimize LM555, and try to get out the best of it.
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Old 14th May 2013, 11:21 AM   #138
Rewind is offline Rewind  Sweden
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So a Sun Audio 2A3 7.5W is probably too weak to drive it. I am guessing you will pick a powerful 300B amp?
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Old 14th May 2013, 11:25 AM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rewind View Post
So a Sun Audio 2A3 7.5W is probably too weak to drive it. I am guessing you will pick a powerful 300B amp?
Yes, i bought this WE91b based amp i Japan :

http://www.audio-collections.com/gal...alneomono.html

, and Takatsuki TA-300b tubes.

Will see how it performs.....
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Old 14th May 2013, 08:07 PM   #140
Rewind is offline Rewind  Sweden
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Since someone mentioned the Beyma Liberty 8 as a direct contendor to the Beyma 12p80ND, and since someone confirmed the Liberty 8 to be a very good clone of the JBL E-120, here is how the JBL E-120, D120F and K-120 sound on electric guitar on random youtube clips.

The JBL D-120F is a similar alnico version of the E-120, which has a ceramic magnet. As a midbass driver you would not play it fullrange like these guitarists do. In fullrange, these speakers are nasty, and that is probably why the K-120 is preferred sometimes as it apparently smoothens the sound. Drivers with alu dust caps are known for a bright and sharp sound, which could be good for increased clarity in midbass.

JBL E-120
Goodsell Super 17 Mk.2 - YouTube

JBL D-120F (alnico) at 1:29 min Clean Guitar Speaker Shootout: Celestion, JBL D120, Altec Lansing, using Top Hat Amp Head - YouTube
I am using the Celestion Vintage 30 as a midbass, and it is played right after the D-120F in this video.

JBL K-120 NEW RIG TESTING - YouTube
Worth looking at since someone who had both the JBL E-120 and K-120 in a guitar cabinet wrote this about the E-120's "piercing quality" and how K-120 is more smooth:

"I have 2x12 E's and K's (HT style). I still A/B a lot when trying different tunes and parts. But I generally settle on the K120's.
I actually find them smoother or more controlled/consistent - the E's seem to have a piercing quality at the mid and high range (depending on volume). Both sound fantastic though...just my preference."

Another famous alu dust cap midbass driver is the ATC PA 75-314-STD. They are old, but cost only 100GBP a piece on ebay. I own four of these, but they are in need of reconing and ATC charge 200GBP for a DIY kit. They were used in Genesis' UK tour 1979. Back then, they were ground breaking and put ATC on the map. They were also used in the very expensive ATC SCM100 in 1988. But they are low on sensitivity.

I love the ATC sound. They remind me of a dry paper sound, Vox guitar amps, and fish n' chips.

Info:
"ATC PA75-314, 75 W normal input power, 150w maximum input power, 3 inch voice coil, 8 ohms, huge vented alnico magnet with heatsink, rubber surround, die cast aluminium frame."

I posted a video of a ATC PA 314-75, but sadly with the wrong recone kit mounted - bass version instead of standard version, so the voice coil was scraping. Here my poor attempt of a demo:
First try of hornloading an ATC PA75-314 12" and a SCM16A tweeter - YouTube

Here is the modern version of these woofers for Hifi use. They are called ATC SB75-314SC Mk. II. They cost 335GPB at Wilmslow.co.uk, but some may not like the "Sensitivity (2.83v/1m): 89dB!"
DIY ATC SCM100 speakers with ATC SPA2-200P amplifier playing Keith Richards studio noodling - YouTube

Last edited by Rewind; 14th May 2013 at 08:27 PM.
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