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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 5th March 2013, 10:06 AM   #11
Juhazi is offline Juhazi  Finland
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Since I'm the OP, I give some light of "Aino"

Aino is the most popular Finnish first name for women, it is also a purely finnish name

The popularity of Aino comes to a great deal from the national saga Kalevala. In the saga men are struggling to get young Aino's hand. The painting that Elias show is the "Triptyke of Aino" by Axel Gallén-Kallela

My youngest daughter is Aino and so was my late grandmother. My grandparents built a big house in the 30's and it was named "Ainola"

Composer Jean Sibelius' wife was Aino and they lived in a house called Ainola. My grandpa played Sibelius' violin pieces too to his Aino at his Ainola. We still have this violin and my Aino is a 9 years old violin student!

Aino Ackté was a world-famous opera singer and the inspiration to Hergé's Mme Bianca Castafiore. Ackte sung Salomé at Metropolitan Opera and made many recordings

Architect Alvar Aalto was married to designer Aino. Many of her glassware are still in production.
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Old 5th March 2013, 10:57 AM   #12
Juhazi is offline Juhazi  Finland
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The form of the bass box could be oval cardioid like G1.3 or perhaps a round cardioid inspired by a glass designed by Aino Aalto, the Aino glass, just put upside down...

As you can see in the link below, the Aalto's lived for a while in my present home town Jyväskylä. Alvar was a student of Jyväskylän Lyseo, like my father and two of my daughters.

Jyväskylä is also the home of Finnish birch plywood. Alvar Aalto was the master of using laminated birch in furniture design....

We are coming close to my sources of inspiration and intentions of this project!

Aino Aalto design Alvar Aalto design
Click the image to open in full size.
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AES Associate Member / My DIY speaker history: -74 Philips 3-way, -82 Hifi 85B, -07 Zaph L18, XLS10+PR/Hypex, -08 CSS125FR, -08 Hifitalo AW-7, -08 TangBand FR, -09 MarkK ER18DXT, -13 PPSL470, -13 AINOgradient

Last edited by Juhazi; 5th March 2013 at 11:16 AM.
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Old 5th March 2013, 01:03 PM   #13
Elias is offline Elias  Finland
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Carlsson was suggested here. I think however Carlsson and Salmi are opposite in their design philosophies. Carlsson apparently tries to utilise the room using reflections, whereas Salmi tries to eliminate room influence avoiding (early) reflections. That is a considerable difference, I think.


- Elias
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Old 5th March 2013, 01:31 PM   #14
Juhazi is offline Juhazi  Finland
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puppet,
I happen to have a pair of Sonab OA-13 at my summer cabin! I can't place them correctly at home. And the don't give the same soundfield I hear from Gradient 1.n
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Old 5th March 2013, 03:13 PM   #15
Juhazi is offline Juhazi  Finland
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And just for curiosity, I have used sonabs as second pair giving "reflections". I just didn't have a system to set level and delay. I also tried the R-L/L-R setup for the second pair but because of the too high level, the sound went bezerk. This happened some 15 years ago.
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Old 5th March 2013, 03:23 PM   #16
puppet is offline puppet  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elias View Post
Carlsson was suggested here. I think however Carlsson and Salmi are opposite in their design philosophies. Carlsson apparently tries to utilise the room using reflections, whereas Salmi tries to eliminate room influence avoiding (early) reflections. That is a considerable difference, I think.


- Elias
Elias ... it seems to me that both of these gentlemen have attempted to mitigate floor reflections in their designs. It could also be said that they (both) try to influence the ceiling reflections in a positive manner. Carlsson uses the side/front wall(s) to an advantage .... Salmis' G1.x is unable to do this effectively (dipole mid/ bipole tweeter). While different in some aspects ... not a totally opposite design philosophy.

Juhazi, I was thinking more on the line of Carlssons' OA-50 series as inspiration.
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Old 5th March 2013, 04:17 PM   #17
Juhazi is offline Juhazi  Finland
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About ambio/orthoperspecta,
I have concidered buying a Salora 3000 Orthoperspecta in 1973-4, but I couldn't find a way to set the speakers in my room. I was only 13 years old then! We bought just the conventional Stereo2000 and I made two speakers using Philips AD2525 3-way kits.

OA-50 is like between G1.x and OA-13

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 5th March 2013, 04:40 PM   #18
Elias is offline Elias  Finland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puppet View Post
Elias ... it seems to me that both of these gentlemen have attempted to mitigate floor reflections in their designs. It could also be said that they (both) try to influence the ceiling reflections in a positive manner. Carlsson uses the side/front wall(s) to an advantage .... Salmis' G1.x is unable to do this effectively (dipole mid/ bipole tweeter). While different in some aspects ... not a totally opposite design philosophy.

Common denominator for them is at least they think about the listening room much more than in general

I was thinking more of Gradient Helsinki which apparently tries to eliminate front wall and floor reflections totally.

It is not clear however in what extent the ceiling reflections have been considered, if they are being intentional or just left there as a lack of better compromise.


- Elias
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Old 5th March 2013, 08:40 PM   #19
Juhazi is offline Juhazi  Finland
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I made some Hornresp simulations of the bass box.

Dayton RSS265HF-8 would be ok. I used 35L closed box, lined (Qtc=0,76).

RSS has a copper coil and suitable VAS and Fs and seems to give a quite nice spl curve with some horn effect and boundary gain. The horn comes from the space between the box and the floor. Because it is on the floor I used 1,0Pi environment. The horn segment should be exponential, but I could not get it.

This has the typical features of a closed box - good impulse response, good phase, low GD, minimal cone movement 1,0mm@30Hz, 85,6dB .

We need to have the bass to do 30 -250/300Hz
Attached Images
File Type: png RSS265 schema.png (54.0 KB, 925 views)
File Type: png RSS265 spl.png (48.7 KB, 916 views)
File Type: png RSS265 imped.png (73.4 KB, 747 views)
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Last edited by Juhazi; 5th March 2013 at 08:49 PM.
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Old 5th March 2013, 09:47 PM   #20
Juhazi is offline Juhazi  Finland
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Here is a manual sketch of Aino gradient. Sorry about the quality - it is quick and dirty!

The mid seems to settle to Beyma LW30 so far.

I think I could use two Fountek NeoCD3 ribbons as tweeters. Look at positioning! The frame for tweeters is birch plywood bent to an angle of 45-60¤. This makes kind of two-pole CBT. Perhaps they need sort of wave guides on their sides (wings).
Click the image to open in full size.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Aino gradient sketch.jpg (72.3 KB, 306 views)
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