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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 5th April 2013, 05:26 AM   #121
Juhazi is offline Juhazi  Finland
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The xo curves above is what I'd like to have acoustically. Minidsp gives me many ways to get there. I try to follow John Reekie...

The 4x10HD minidsp will arive today finally! The Finnish Customs and FedEx have been holding it for two weeks now!
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AES Associate Member / My DIY speaker history: -74 Philips 3-way, -82 Hifi 85B, -07 Zaph L18, XLS10+PR/Hypex, -08 CSS125FR, -08 Hifitalo AW-7, -08 TangBand FR, -09 MarkK ER18DXT, -13 PPSL470, -13 AINOgradient
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Old 7th April 2013, 07:23 PM   #122
Juhazi is offline Juhazi  Finland
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I have been working hard with the proto and minidsp!

I used a 2ch amp, which measn I had to do huge number of measurements to match levels after every change in PEQ. Fortunately it is very easy to do, because when the 4x10HD is connected to the computer with usb it reads software settings "online"

The beginning was difficult but finally I started using negative values for correction too. Each channel's master volume varies from -13 to -18db and maximum corrections are around 9dB. The Tweeter had to be shelved almost 20dB above 10kHz!

Here are my graphs! 20ms used for every measurement, mic at tweeter level, distance 80cm. UMIK-1 with a calibration file. The spl level is not calibrated. The room was my home theater "bunker", it makes wiggles up to 400Hz and some early reflections. The poor directivity at 2000Hz puzzles me, it should be right on dipole area...

W to LM xo 180Hz LR 12dB
LM to HM xo 800Hz BW18dB
HM to T xo 3500Hz BW18dB

The area around 400 to 800 is very difficult.
Attached Images
File Type: png aino proto 80cm 20ms xo ver1.png (60.5 KB, 360 views)
File Type: png aino proto hmt 0 30 60.png (51.9 KB, 356 views)
File Type: png aino proto lmhm 0 30 50.png (58.5 KB, 346 views)
File Type: png aino proto individual w lm hm t xo ver1.png (52.1 KB, 339 views)
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AES Associate Member / My DIY speaker history: -74 Philips 3-way, -82 Hifi 85B, -07 Zaph L18, XLS10+PR/Hypex, -08 CSS125FR, -08 Hifitalo AW-7, -08 TangBand FR, -09 MarkK ER18DXT, -13 PPSL470, -13 AINOgradient

Last edited by Juhazi; 7th April 2013 at 07:31 PM.
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Old 7th April 2013, 07:46 PM   #123
Juhazi is offline Juhazi  Finland
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This is how it looks on minidsp plugin
Attached Images
File Type: png AINO proto xo ver1 minidsp.png (114.1 KB, 328 views)
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AES Associate Member / My DIY speaker history: -74 Philips 3-way, -82 Hifi 85B, -07 Zaph L18, XLS10+PR/Hypex, -08 CSS125FR, -08 Hifitalo AW-7, -08 TangBand FR, -09 MarkK ER18DXT, -13 PPSL470, -13 AINOgradient
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Old 8th April 2013, 07:15 PM   #124
Juhazi is offline Juhazi  Finland
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The xo ver2 has:

W to LM LR12dB @ 160Hz (LM inverted polarity) I also put a temporary 12dB HP filter for low bass because of huge boundary gain in my small room!
LM to HM LR12dB @ 800Hz
HM to T BW30dB @ 3500Hz

PEQ was modified too

This resulted in more even spl and directivity

I moved the proto to a little better position and used 1m distance. I had to stop making sweeps and ver2 is not finished yet, I hope to to get some graphs tomorrow with an AV amplifier.
Attached Images
File Type: png AINO proto xo ver2 minidsp.png (70.3 KB, 49 views)
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AES Associate Member / My DIY speaker history: -74 Philips 3-way, -82 Hifi 85B, -07 Zaph L18, XLS10+PR/Hypex, -08 CSS125FR, -08 Hifitalo AW-7, -08 TangBand FR, -09 MarkK ER18DXT, -13 PPSL470, -13 AINOgradient

Last edited by Juhazi; 8th April 2013 at 07:26 PM.
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Old 9th April 2013, 07:04 AM   #125
jlaakso is offline jlaakso  Finland
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Nice progress Juhazi.

What are your feelings about UMIK-1? I've been planning on for simple mic for some time and UMIK-1 seems simple enough
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Old 9th April 2013, 09:42 AM   #126
Juhazi is offline Juhazi  Finland
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Thanks, jlaakso!

The miniDSP UMIK-1 is as simple and easy as it can be! No hazzle with mic preamps etc. humming devices. Just plug and measure! The downloadable calibration file for REW is nice too. The mechanical quality is good.

I've decided to use 30 and 45¤ measurements as main guideline, as suggested by Jon Marsh and John Kreskowsky. Also it seems like my NeoCD3.5 gives way too much directivity. Hopefully it has a detachable waveguide! I must make that modification tonight!

I bought a second hand Cambridge Audio Azur 540 AV receiver for 250€ from here
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AES Associate Member / My DIY speaker history: -74 Philips 3-way, -82 Hifi 85B, -07 Zaph L18, XLS10+PR/Hypex, -08 CSS125FR, -08 Hifitalo AW-7, -08 TangBand FR, -09 MarkK ER18DXT, -13 PPSL470, -13 AINOgradient

Last edited by Juhazi; 9th April 2013 at 09:44 AM.
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Old 9th April 2013, 11:46 AM   #127
jlaakso is offline jlaakso  Finland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juhazi View Post
I bought a second hand Cambridge Audio Azur 540 AV receiver
Do You plan to use that as power amp in your setup? Connect miniDSP 4x10 to 6.1 direct input etc?
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Old 9th April 2013, 07:47 PM   #128
Juhazi is offline Juhazi  Finland
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CA 540 is just for prototyping, the final AINO GRADIENT will have B&O icepower modules - fully active! It might be a problem to use via AV receiver - does the pre out follow main level control?

The AINOproto v3 is finished!

Drivers:
W SEAS L26ROY closed box
LM Beyma 12MWNd no baffle tilted 30¤ backwards on the box
HM Vifa NE95 pair 120mm baffle dipole (MTM)
T Fountek NeoCD3.5H (without waveguide)

miniDSP 4x10HD settings
PEQ to control dipole effect and other variations in measured spl without xo.
xo 200/LR12dB 850/LR12dB 4000/LR24dB, levels matched

This is fun and difficult! I am happy for what I have achieved with minidsp in 4 days (the few free hours of those...) The sound is wonderful (one speaker playing) - tight and solid bass, exellent human voices and solo instruments. Very clear and fast transients and highest treble. The rooms don't seem to colorate or add decay or "ringing" to the sound. I hate that I'll have to wait until summer to hear these playing stereo!
Attached Images
File Type: png AINOproto v3 xo minidsp.png (232.9 KB, 29 views)
File Type: png ainoproto v3 0 30 60 8ms.png (51.5 KB, 42 views)
File Type: png ainoproto v3 0 30 60¤ 300ms.png (52.2 KB, 39 views)
File Type: png ainoproto v3 decay.png (131.2 KB, 52 views)
File Type: png ainoproto v3 spectrogram.png (194.0 KB, 58 views)
File Type: png ainoproto v3rt edt.png (31.3 KB, 45 views)
File Type: png ainoproto v3 spl 0¤ 500ms no smooth.png (125.8 KB, 27 views)
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AES Associate Member / My DIY speaker history: -74 Philips 3-way, -82 Hifi 85B, -07 Zaph L18, XLS10+PR/Hypex, -08 CSS125FR, -08 Hifitalo AW-7, -08 TangBand FR, -09 MarkK ER18DXT, -13 PPSL470, -13 AINOgradient

Last edited by Juhazi; 9th April 2013 at 08:08 PM.
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Old 9th April 2013, 08:19 PM   #129
Juhazi is offline Juhazi  Finland
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I have a life too...

On Saturday we visited our summer cabin by a lake in central Finland. A sauna bath was needed!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Kontio 0413.jpg (657.9 KB, 83 views)
File Type: jpg kontion saunassa.jpg (723.5 KB, 83 views)
File Type: jpg AINOproto v3.jpg (317.2 KB, 163 views)
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AES Associate Member / My DIY speaker history: -74 Philips 3-way, -82 Hifi 85B, -07 Zaph L18, XLS10+PR/Hypex, -08 CSS125FR, -08 Hifitalo AW-7, -08 TangBand FR, -09 MarkK ER18DXT, -13 PPSL470, -13 AINOgradient
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Old 10th April 2013, 06:56 AM   #130
lolo is offline lolo  France
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juhazi View Post
I hate that I'll have to wait until summer to hear these playing stereo!
what? Are you that patient? I would blow a fuse waiting that long!

the spectrogram looks unusually good!

You Finns are really lucky to have so much unspoilt nature at your feet..
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