Against the wall loudspeakers, pro's and con's? - Page 2 - diyAudio
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Old 6th March 2013, 07:32 AM   #11
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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for relaxed casual listening or surround, 'on wall array' look very interesting indeed

but for serious music listening, only 'direct on axis' listening works for me
personally I simply cant stand any kind of weird off odd angled speakers
I consider all off axis listening an 'invention' to accommodate speaker design errors
listening off axis is down a path where you might just as well go omni, in wall, or similar

but its my personal opinion only, ofcourse
what other people may prefer is not my concern....IMO
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Old 6th March 2013, 07:54 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinitus View Post
for relaxed casual listening or surround, 'on wall array' look very interesting indeed

but for serious music listening, only 'direct on axis' listening works for me
personally I simply cant stand any kind of weird off odd angled speakers
I consider all off axis listening an 'invention' to accommodate speaker design errors
listening off axis is down a path where you might just as well go omni, in wall, or similar

but its my personal opinion only, ofcourse
what other people may prefer is not my concern....IMO
What is the problem with off-axis listening? By the way, angling drivers and asymmetric radiation patterns are all doable in an on-wall design.

P.S. What happened to your shift key and interpunctuation? Makes your posts very hard to read.
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Old 6th March 2013, 08:23 AM   #13
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The nice thing about against the wall is that you know what that means, with the only variation the wall construction and finish. Otherwise you have to be too far from the wall, which means that most of us are actually living with combing to some extent
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Old 6th March 2013, 08:41 AM   #14
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markus76 View Post
P.S. What happened to your shift key and interpunctuation? Makes your posts very hard to read.
noted
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Old 6th March 2013, 09:09 AM   #15
Johno is offline Johno  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinitus View Post
noted
But I like the way you think and the way you make me think so the punctuation is forgiven.
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Old 6th March 2013, 01:20 PM   #16
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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Originally Posted by markusA View Post
ok, so basically it's just cancellation from the reflective surfaces?
Try to avoid having the same distances from driver | floor | ceiling | rear wall | side wall.
This should make the dip wider but not quite as pronounced and hopefully the rest is fixable with dsp and room correction?

Am I getting the gist of it?
Changing the distances may hide the problem somewhat, or not. I wouldn't count on it. The baffle should be integrated with the wall somehow. Dsp wouldn't be able to fix some of the problems you'd create without doing this.
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Old 6th March 2013, 03:56 PM   #17
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Default Line array reading

There is a lot of reading material available on Line Arrays,some of it is actually true!
I would recomend a Google around and spend a few weeks researching the effects of placing a Line Array on or in a wall.
Then you need to look at the drivers you use, in particular the off axis response.

In the short term must say that I disagree with AllenB and Tinitus, I am curious to hear about the line array cabinets and drivers they have built and listened to on the wall...any photo's chaps...?

I am experimenting over the next month or two so I hope to have some more measurement based answers later.
At the moment the sonics of the on wall line array are so obviously superior to traditional free standing towers using the same drivers, I am loathed to change too much!

Cheers
D.
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Old 6th March 2013, 06:26 PM   #18
markusA is offline markusA  Sweden
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Personally I'm not going for the line array, I'm thinking keeping to the kiss principle is my preferred cup of tea. (For now anyhow.)

I'll just go ahead and throw some thoughts around.
I'm thinking about doing a floorstanding 2-way with controlled directivity.
Placing the cabinet against the wall with a predetermined toe-in will make the driver | wall distance pretty small on the one side and somewhere between factor 1 - 1/sqrt(2) * the driver diameter on the other side. Let's say 15" just for arguments sake.
Centering the driver fairly high isn't an issue so driver | floor distance is easily in the 30" area.
Driver | Ceiling should be something like 70".

If I'm not totally off target we should have some 1/4 wave cancellations and 1/2 wave reinforcements cancelling each other out.
Hopefully this would eliminate the serious dips and peaks but than again, I'm just spitballing here.
Just a rough draft of my initial thoughts.

I'm just toying with the idea and trying to learn about the pitfalls.
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Old 7th March 2013, 12:43 AM   #19
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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I think this is a good thing to do, but may not be a complete solution. The response is 'fixed' at one point in your room with things being more random or possibly averaging in the bigger picture. Treating the room may have benefits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tinitus View Post
personally I simply cant stand any kind of weird off odd angled speakers I consider all off axis listening an 'invention' to accommodate speaker design errorsIMO
This is simply not the case. Zero degrees normally sounds different to the rest of the speaker and a point off axis often better represents the speakers true response. Most speakers are different off to the sides and when you average out the sound coming from the speaker in all directions and try to find a point that resembles and best represents this tone, it is more likely to be some angle off-axis.

Furthermore, consider the radiation pattern as if it were a soccer ball with a small speaker inside. Zero degrees would cover one patch facing you. If you move a little off axis, the tone you hear is also being radiated over the area of the five adjacent patches. It is therefore more respresentative of the sound entering the room in that regard.
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Old 7th March 2013, 10:47 AM   #20
markusA is offline markusA  Sweden
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There are some pointers that might help understanding my thoughts.
My rig is in my living room and quite honestly I don't have neither the space or means to build it into a dedicated listening room.

I like the idea of a "wide sweet spot" so that the larger part of the sofa will have good audio.

I'm willing to sacrifice pinpoint accuracy to some degree but waveguides seem to get the job done well enough without sacrificing too much.

Against the wall placement will make the room more livable and easier to furnish.

So, if there is a way to pull it off I think it might be worth the hassle.
Dare to think outside the box.
If it turns out the obstacles are to great I don't mind taking a step back to reevaluate the ideas.
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