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Old 1st March 2013, 10:54 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
But the Gradient does something clever, it basically distributes those reflections all over the listening room. So we still get four reflections, but they're not parallel to each other. More importantly, they're distributed in the time domain. So the 'floor bounce' doesn't occur at the same time as the 'ceiling bounce' or the bounce off of the wall.
You're describing a behavior that is common to most loudspeakers. It's not unique to the Gradient. Tilting a speaker (or driver) simply sends more energy in the room which decreases D/R ratio.
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Old 1st March 2013, 11:19 AM   #12
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
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Quote:
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But the Gradient does something clever, it basically distributes those reflections all over the listening room.

not really all over

in fact this scheme of pattern of reflections is misleading

please consider the directivity of the 6 inches midbas unit in this cardioid configuration and of the waveguided tweeter

for me it is quite evident that Helsinki deliberately uses (and increases the level of) the ceiling reflection and avoids (decreases the level of) the floor reflection to get the sound right

sometime ago in another thread someone called such a loudspeaker a ceiling flooder in an analogy to a "flood lamp" used for: "Indirect lighting, or uplighting, [which] create[s] a low glare environment by uniformly lighting the ceiling"

in the case of Helsinki there is much less energy reflected off the floor towards the listener and much more energy reflected off the ceiling towards the listener in comparison with a conventional loudspeaker
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Old 1st March 2013, 11:21 AM   #13
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
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Originally Posted by markus76 View Post
Tilting a speaker (or driver) simply sends more energy in the room which decreases D/R ratio.
less? why?

not less - but in a different way, the pattern of the reflected sound is different
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Old 1st March 2013, 11:44 AM   #14
Elias is offline Elias  Finland
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Old 1st March 2013, 12:00 PM   #15
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
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why bawling?

it's just a typical bookshelf

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Old 1st March 2013, 12:24 PM   #16
Elias is offline Elias  Finland
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Here is my hypothesis
.
.

Basically you can't eliminate reflections and diffraction, but the closer they are to the original impulse, the more they collapse the soundstage and reduce intellgibility.

On the other side, due to finite time-frequency resolution of the perception system the closer they are to the original impulse, the more they emerge as an inseparable entity.

The perception of cabinet diffraction depends on the time difference in relation to wavelength. This would indicate the diffraction effects be worse at highest freqs, but there also the time-freq resolution is poor (in terms of [dT]/[dHz]). For this reason for example high freq comb filtering goes mostly unnoticed.


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Old 1st March 2013, 01:44 PM   #17
lolo is offline lolo  France
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Graaf, let's not be too fussy. That a WG/Horn proponent admits the role of reflexions and hence good room use, is already a great thing for "us".
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Old 1st March 2013, 04:01 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markus76 View Post
You're describing a behavior that is common to most loudspeakers. It's not unique to the Gradient. Tilting a speaker (or driver) simply sends more energy in the room which decreases D/R ratio.
Agreed, yes. Nothing magical about the Gradient, just saying that it's midrange configuration is a clever way of making the midrange act like a radiator that's a smaller size. The 'look' of the speaker reminds of some DIY experiment, but the measurements indicate that there's real engineering and a process of continued refinement in the design.
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Old 1st March 2013, 06:36 PM   #19
Paul W is offline Paul W  United States
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I heard the Helsinki a few years ago and, within dynamic limits, I liked them. For me, the Helsinki compensated for some of the limitations of simple stereo by shifting D/R response toward later room reflections. They provided a greater sense of envelopment.
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Old 1st March 2013, 06:49 PM   #20
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it's midrange configuration is a clever way of making the midrange act like a radiator that's a smaller size.
I'd think it's the other way around. If it's a working cardioid then the directivity at the lower end is higher than the same driver in a similar sized box.
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