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Old 7th March 2013, 01:26 AM   #51
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I'll chime back in here an add an additional thumbs up for the Rythmik Servos. I run a pair of 15" at home and we use a quad of them at the studio. They are very well reviewed and any of the few dissenting opinions are just plan wrong. Properly integrated with the mains and well placed in the room, they are exceptional for music. For HT, people generally seem to like a little more "boom" with their explosions, but they are accurate and very well pitch defined, especially at the highest damping setting.

I also think that some good diffusion is in order. Well placed diffusion can actually add to the sense of soundstage width for most recordings, however the more anechoic thing you've got going on is great for delicate acoustic recordings like those from Chesky Records back when Bob Katz was their recording engineer. When the recording itself has all of the spatial cues you need for immersion, sometimes more absorptive of good too. In either case, I think you are heading in the right direction.

The Raal is tops of anything I've ever heard for HF with possibly the exception of plasma, but the one I heard ran out of headroom quickly, whereas the 140-15 gets pretty loud and is very dynamic sounding, but always smooth. What about the 12M Scan Speak mid, and a nice 8-10" in the top box to be followed up with a pair of Rythmik? This gets you into the ballgame for a lot less than the Accutons and arguably, the Scan mid relieve of anything under say 300Hz is world class. Plus it is not fragile like the Accuton which scare me if you are gonna be throwing some ref level HT stuff at them too. Or in that case, use the BG Neo8-S version with a 8-10" woofer. Basically what I just made as a prototype studio monitor, but with the larger Raal in place of the OEM.

Greg
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Last edited by studiotech; 7th March 2013 at 01:28 AM.
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Old 7th March 2013, 01:43 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by studiotech View Post
I also think that some good diffusion is in order. Well placed diffusion can actually add to the sense of soundstage width for most recordings, however the more anechoic thing you've got going on is great for delicate acoustic recordings like those from Chesky Records back when Bob Katz was their recording engineer. When the recording itself has all of the spatial cues you need for immersion, sometimes more absorptive of good too. In either case, I think you are heading in the right direction.

Greg
Greg, the OP is strictly talking about HT here, where all of the spatial cues are in the soundtrack itself.

While diffusion is helpful on the back wall, any frontal soundstage stretching(or expansion if you will) can change the delicate balance between the picture width, and the image width of the audio. If the sound it much larger than the picture, the brain will never "believe" what it is seeing and hearing is real. Most folks into HT do not understand the idea of scaling their audio and picture together so that one is not larger than the other.

Music on the other hand is quite a different beast.
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Old 7th March 2013, 01:44 AM   #53
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For the OP, I thought his room looked perhaps just a little excessively on the dead side.
No need to be careful with words. The room is more than just a 'little' excessively on the dead side. And because of that I'm getting fantastic bass. But what makes the dead room even worse is that I'm using very directional speakers meant for a professional mixing room. But there is a benefit. The soundstage is very accurate. Instruments and vocals don't wander around as they change frequency. The phantom center is dead straight ahead.

For two years I enjoyed the monitors and was always impressed with the accurate soundstage. When the dealer I purchased the deqx from came to my house he listened to them. He thought they sounded great, but the soundstage was 'between the speakers' and 'not enveloping enough'. I listened to his setup. He uses speakers with waveguide tweeters. Completely different soundstage. But too big for my taste. For orchestral music perfect, but for a jazz vocal it sounded like the singer had a five foot head! So I'm looking for a solution between those two extremes. We discussed other options such as AMT and ribbon. We also talked about not extending cone drivers too high where they will beam. I'd like to try the RAAL ribbon based on its reputation for good horizontal dispersion at a relatively low crossover point for a tweeter. Then match it with a midrange that is not beaming at the crossover.

What I'm learning in this thread is that is tough to build full range 3-way to those specifications because either the woofer or midrange will be stretched too far. So I'll think about which is more important. Having a 3-way to simplify setup with the deqx, or 4-way to allow me to use a smaller midrange driver.

Of course the RAAL has a reputation for having a narrow vertical dispersion. If that turns out to be not to my liking then someone is going to get a great deal on a pair of used 140-15D tweeters!
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Old 7th March 2013, 02:19 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Soundtrackmixer View Post
Greg, the OP is strictly talking about HT here, where all of the spatial cues are in the soundtrack itself.

Music on the other hand is quite a different beast.
I was under the impression that he was looking for a dual purpose system, hence the reason I mentioned BOTH choices, dead AND diffuse.

Falcon, you can achieve the 4way and still use the DEQX as a three way processor. Just use the built-in filtering and EQ functions of the Rythmik plate amp as the 4th way of the system.

Greg
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Old 7th March 2013, 02:31 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Soundtrackmixer View Post
Greg, the OP is strictly talking about HT here, where all of the spatial cues are in the soundtrack itself.
I want a dual purpose system. Agree, the room was originally setup for HT. I used to have the left/right closer to the screen. But lately I've been using it more for music. Seperating the left/righ has helped with the soundstage for music.

I understand that its not possible to be optimised for both. But I think I can do better than what I have.
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Old 7th March 2013, 02:39 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by studiotech View Post
Falcon, you can achieve the 4way and still use the DEQX as a three way processor. Just use the built-in filtering and EQ functions of the Rythmik plate amp as the 4th way of the system.
Greg
You can only do this if you send everything down to 20hz out the woofer output of the deqx for the subwoofer. But then you risk overdriving the woofer. I've thought this through a lot. I could introduce another line-level crossover. But then I have to equalize the two together and phase match them some other way then using delay in the deqx.

The solution that works: buy a hdp express-II instead of buying expensive woofers that would be necessary to make a 3-way full range. Use my existing subwoofer for 60 or 80Hz and below.
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Old 7th March 2013, 02:40 AM   #57
jReave is offline jReave  Canada
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Originally Posted by falconsprint View Post
No need to be careful with words. The room is more than just a 'little' excessively on the dead side.
Yea, perhaps parsing a few too many words there. But I really only meant a 'little' excessive because I like it also an the excessive side.

I lived in a small apartment a number of years ago and set my system up in my 12' x 11' bedroom. I set my doublebed, 6" of foam topped off with 2" of memory foam, up into a Murphy bed on the back wall, put bass traps in each corner, had 4 acoustic panels on the side walls and covered the front and side walls in heavy, dark drapery. My projector was on a shelf above the bed and I attached my smaller rear surround speakers to the underside of the bed so they'd be right behind me when I sat right in front of them. I didn't have a single complaint for music or movies - on the contrary, I thought it was my best setup to date, except I couldn't play it loud enough. (my mains are a Magico Mini style copy using the Scan 15W and a Vifa XT25) So in my mind, you've only gone a 'little' further than I did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by falconsprint View Post
What I'm learning in this thread is that is tough to build full range 3-way to those specifications because either the woofer or midrange will be stretched too far. So I'll think about which is more important. Having a 3-way to simplify setup with the deqx, or 4-way to allow me to use a smaller midrange driver.
Forgive me for being dense - I don't know much of anything about an active setup - but can't you just design an active 3-way speaker that will roll off naturally 2nd order at about 60-80Hz and then simply add the powered subs to cover the final 2 octaves independently of the active system, using the sub xo to blend with the mains?
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Old 7th March 2013, 02:42 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by studiotech View Post
Plus it is not fragile like the Accuton which scare me if you are gonna be throwing some ref level HT stuff at them too.
Might be kind of fun to see the Accutons shatter into dust during an explosion in a movie soundtrack. A trick you can only do once though, so it would have to be at the end of the movie.
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Old 7th March 2013, 02:43 AM   #59
jReave is offline jReave  Canada
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ok, never mind - question just answered above.
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Old 7th March 2013, 02:46 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by jReave View Post
Forgive me for being dense - I don't know much of anything about an active setup - but can't you just design an active 3-way speaker that will roll off naturally 2nd order at about 60-80Hz and then simply add the powered subs to cover the final 2 octaves independently of the active system, using the sub xo to blend with the mains?
Perhaps, as long as the 20-40Hz content didn't harm the driver. But let's not explore this anymore. If I go 4-way, I'll get the express-II.
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