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Old 2nd March 2013, 04:09 AM   #11
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I started out with the Raal using a large value cap(30MFd) for protection, but after the Digmoda amps proved to be dead silent on turn-on/turn-off, I've since removed the cap with no problems. I never had a cap on the Neo10. That's a tough one if the DEQX pops. Better to use one then to be safe.

You are correct about dispersion being a possible issue. The Raal will be very wide at crossover, while a pair of Neo10 side by side will be equivalent to an 8-10" driver, so at 3KHz, their horizontal dispersion will be narrow. As you can see in my set-up, it kept the Neo10 stacked, so they are more like a smaller 4" midwoofer in regards to horizontal dispersion. These are all things you could test and play with yourself. You can buy additional PE blank baffles for cheap to use for prototyping.

If you really feel ambitious and like the idea of narrowed dispersion, then maybe the side by side Neo10 would suit you if you could narrow the Raals dispersion. I wonder if you could create some kind of the large foam waveguide of sorts. Or you could try something radical and mount the Raal horizontally which would make it's width about the same as the Neo10 and do an MTM that way. I did something similar during prototyping with BOTH the Neo10's and the Raal sideways, but in this case maybe just the Raal?

Greg
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Old 2nd March 2013, 06:15 PM   #12
Jonasz is offline Jonasz  Sweden
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Maybe B&W FST? They won't play anything below 300hz or so but have excellent low distortion and a healthy 94 dB sensitivity.
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Old 2nd March 2013, 08:44 PM   #13
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Maybe B&W FST? They won't play anything below 300hz or so but have excellent low distortion and a healthy 94 dB sensitivity.
Yes, it's a nice mid, but is it REALLY available? I thought B&W was cracking down on folks buying these without proof of owning one of their speakers using the driver. Kinda of like KEF pulling the plug on their coax drivers.

Greg
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Old 2nd March 2013, 10:59 PM   #14
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How about a pair of Seas Excel W15CH001 or Acuton C158-8-085? In a vertial MTM alignment for the left and right and horizontal for the center? I'm reading a lot of good things about the Neo10, except the low end. I like music with a lot of bass, drums and electronics. I'm also struggling to come up with a layout with two Neo10s and one RAAL that works for the center channel.

I don't think I have to be too concerned with matching the sensitiviy of the RAAL when using a dsp crossover. Correct? I just want to make sure that I pick a driver that still has good dispersion at the target crossover frequency of 2500hz.

Last edited by falconsprint; 2nd March 2013 at 11:06 PM.
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Old 2nd March 2013, 11:49 PM   #15
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Sure, those are excellent drivers and would be fine. The Seas will have a break-up mode near 8KHz, but with those steep slopes you ought to be OK. The Accuton breakup is closer to 4KHz, so you might need an additional notch there. A vertical MTM with the 140-15 is problematic because of its height. But, hey rules are meant to be broken, right? Considering the level of quality you are considering buying and having for your end result, it might be worth your while to buy one of several drivers you are interested in and trying them all out. That's how I did it. Only way to know what suits YOU.

Or, before you commit to one decision, try the subs crossed higher in your current set-up to see how far they can go and still sound good. That way you know for sure your lower/higher limits.

Greg

Last edited by studiotech; 2nd March 2013 at 11:55 PM.
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Old 3rd March 2013, 02:51 AM   #16
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Sure, those are excellent drivers and would be fine. The Seas will have a break-up mode near 8KHz, but with those steep slopes you ought to be OK. The Accuton breakup is closer to 4KHz, so you might need an additional notch there. A vertical MTM with the 140-15 is problematic because of its height. But, hey rules are meant to be broken, right? Considering the level of quality you are considering buying and having for your end result, it might be worth your while to buy one of several drivers you are interested in and trying them all out. That's how I did it. Only way to know what suits YOU.

Or, before you commit to one decision, try the subs crossed higher in your current set-up to see how far they can go and still sound good. That way you know for sure your lower/higher limits.

Greg
I not sure I understand why a vertical MTM is problematic with the RAAL. Is it because the seperation of the two midwoofers is too large and they will lobe? If so I'd be happy with a vertical TMM layout and keep the MTM for the horizontal center channel. I'm certainly willing to experiment with different baffle panels. I understand that horizontal MTM is not ideal. In the not too distint future I'll be replacing my plasma with a projector. I'll then use a audio transparent screen and orient the center the same as the left and right.

I agree testing out drivers and finding one that suits me is optimal. I'm not sure how I do that. Are there places that send out loaner drivers? Or do you buy and sell drivers until you find the one you want to keep? But to be honest my subjective listening skills may not be reliable enough for me to remember what each trial driver sounded like as I cycle through them.

I'm totally sold on the DEQX. So steep filters and taking drivers to the edge of their pass band is not an issue.
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Old 4th March 2013, 10:55 AM   #17
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the raal 140-15 work fine in a 6 1/2 TMT. in real world. neither from simulation expirience nor from hearing from somebody "they won`t"

first choice could be seas magnesium with accurate sound ( every instrument seems to have sharp edges, really tight bass ), seas nextel (fine too, for me a little bit more "snappy" and smoother (not muddy)), phl driver (no expierence with raal) or accuton (same as for the magnesium) or if you can get them kevlar drivrs from davis acoustics ( they tend to look a bit old skool, but the sound tight)
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Old 4th March 2013, 12:21 PM   #18
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My vote goes for Accuton.
I've made a speaker with the Raal 140-15D and the Accuton C173-6-090.
I found that the sound signature of both drivers match very good, both very detailed and non aggressive.
I can listen to them all day without listening fatigue
You'll find plenty of examples that uses an Accuton+Raal combination.
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Old 4th March 2013, 07:14 PM   #19
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I've made a couple of changes and made a decision. I will start out with a simple tweeter over midrange configuration. Easier to build and measure. The center will still need to be MTM but that will come later after the left and right are sorted out. I tested my subwoofers at various crossover frequencies this weekend and it is seamless up to the max I tested of 180hz. Probably could go higher, but I would worry about the drivers being so far away from the midrange.

I ordered a pair of the Accuton C90-6-724 Cell Bass/Midrange Driver. I don't see a lot of discussion about this driver yet. But it looks like the specs meet what I'm looking for. The extended frequency response gives me a lot of options. I might need to find a shop with a CNC to cut the precise hole in the baffle for the unusual mounting.

The final build will be a satellite over bass enclosure. Probably with two 10" Accuton woofers.
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Old 4th March 2013, 08:57 PM   #20
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Good choice
That Accuton C90-6-724 is a new driver that's out since last year.
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