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Old 22nd February 2013, 02:24 AM   #11
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Old 22nd February 2013, 02:44 AM   #12
chaos is offline chaos  Austria
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kindhornman View Post
I know you may think it blasphemy but just removing the cells in the 311 horn will help the on axis sound more than you can imagine. I have done this long ago and it will clean up the on axis sound and not really do much for the off axis response. The 311 horn is thick enough that you will not cause any ringing in the flare.
hm.HM HM this is not the main problem. i will leave the s2 with the rh330 as it is right at the moment. i know that a lecleach may sound better, but i find the round horns in combination with a bass like mine butt-ugly!
and when i listen to it i also can see it.....
if i change this, it will be made of carbon-fiber anyway.
my 1st thougt was this: build a horn for 80hz, more is not possible in my room and add a sub, all done one the software side.
then i saw the exemplar horn and thougt.......
i was really dissapointed when i tried a software crossover, i was always an analog freak.
i listen to a buff dac, exa u2i usb, perfect, and expected to go along...no way
i would have liked a software crossover, time delay, equalizing and so on, but it does not work. for me.
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Old 22nd February 2013, 02:49 AM   #13
chaos is offline chaos  Austria
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Originally Posted by steve71 View Post

Shame you don't live close by so we could compare notes.
ah, austria should not be that far away from australia!
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Old 22nd February 2013, 07:17 AM   #14
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Chaos,
I understand not wanting to change the 311 horns, but they really do sound better without the cells. On the other point about the crossover I would look at an active crossover in your case. With a proper design you can not only pick your crossover points you can also add time delay if you want to do that and not try and do that with physical alignment that has other problems. If you move the multicell far enough back to time align the two devices you have to remember that then you will have a very reflective surface, the top of the bass enclosure, that will play havoc with the vertical dispersion. I have built many large format bass enclosures though they were for professional sound applications. An 80 hz 1/4 wave mouth size is rather large but I have had up to a 75 hz mouth size horn in my house. Forget about adding any reflex port, they just can't keep up with the horn flare unless you are using an active eq that can overcome the differential and then the power amp requirements will be much greater or you will have problems with excursion playing with not only the lower end but will modulate the horns output. If you are going to use a sub enclosure to fill in below the 80Hz cutoff frequency of the horn then a sealed back of very small proportions is the way to go. This will lower the usable low frequency cutoff of the horn cutoff by a usable amount. If I remember correctly the cutoff becomes 1.2 times lower with this method. The volume of the rear enclosure will be slightly larger than the driver will take up itself. With an exponential flare the volume become V=2.9 x A/R A= the area of the throat and R=the effective flare rate. This equation was developed by Paul Klipsch many years ago and it does work. For what you are doing a curved horn will work just as well as a straight horn and can be much shorter in depth which in a room comes in handy.
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Old 23rd February 2013, 11:51 AM   #15
chaos is offline chaos  Austria
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maybe i will try something like an iwata horn on the midrange later?hm, im shure i will
you describe exactly what i was thinking about, the reflections with a time-aligned midrange horn,and as i understood the whole thing,its not about physically aligning the horns when a crossover is involved.
i also think, an active xover will be better.
so you think, this would be the way to go?:


i played around on horn response, got the results in the attached pics(maybe somebody could the check the input parameters for the 515-8hp?)

i have no equipment to measure my speakers but i listened to some test tones last night.my speaker rolls of earlier than the horn in the simualtion, but the rolloff is not that steep(the open rear chamber?). 50hz is way down, maybe i can get the same lf-response with a straight horn(and it should be way better between 70-100hz)?

thanks a lot for your help!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg hornreponse input gpa 515-8hp.jpg (93.0 KB, 148 views)
File Type: jpg hornreponse spl gpa 515-8hp.jpg (70.8 KB, 141 views)
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Old 23rd February 2013, 05:31 PM   #16
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Chaos,
one thing to remember is that all horns have a downward slope to the curve above a break point in the response curve. Depending on the curvature of a bent horn this will come about earlier in the response curve than a straight horn but if it is a simple smooth curvature it shouldn't be a severe difference. I can't comment on how much a difference there is between a conic horn and an exponential horn in this regards, but because of the improved loading of an exponential horn at lower frequencies it could be greater with this type of design.

I would definitely go with an active crossover, it will be easier to get things right and a delay function should be easily implemented with that type of design. The only problem is you will need multiple amplifiers rather than a single amplifier using passive crossovers.
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Old 5th March 2013, 08:49 PM   #17
Scott L is offline Scott L  United States
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Default 515 8G

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve71 View Post
I'm starting a project for a straight horn (GPA 515G) to cover down to 60hz with matching polars where it crosses to the an Altec 1003 horn.

Right now I'm using a 80hz conical horn (front loaded) that works well, but I think it can be improved at least in theory.

Shame you don't live close by so we could compare notes.
Steve, Please update us on your progress of your new mid-bass horn design.
I [also] have a pair of 515 8G. I'd love to be able to use them down to 60 Hz, horn loaded.
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