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Old 2nd March 2013, 05:17 PM   #11
PB2 is offline PB2  United States
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I think what I would do is to build the small towers as you have planned to match the original 3.3s. Take one of the towers positioned where it would be as a true 3.3, and place the one sub box behind it turned so that the woofer is in the correct location. Then build a copy of the original crossover - use this as your reference. We could probably find a modern drop in replacement for the 1259 and if you are willing to build a second box you could test it with the second tower, or measure the 1259 based system, then swap the drivers. It would be nice to have a known and tested drop in replacement for the 1259 - well really for all the drivers.
Do you have any interest in a second sub?
Then you could test an active version of the woofer to tower crossover, similar to what SY did, where you'd have the reference to be sure that they actually measure and sound the same.


This is probably the closest for the upper mid - I've not checked the specs:
The Madisound Speaker Store

I'd probably go with this for the tweeter even with the fabric dome since it will probably otherwise drop in with minimal changes - again I'd check the specs before final selection:
The Madisound Speaker Store

Edit: you could even put up a temporary baffle extension around the 1259 to give it the same size as the original 3.3 to make your reference closer to the original. Then you could see if there is a significant difference and look for ways to compensate in the active or even passive crossover.
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Last edited by PB2; 2nd March 2013 at 05:23 PM.
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Old 2nd March 2013, 06:25 PM   #12
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Thanks y'all. Jack was kind enough to send me some files too, so I've got my hands full now ...

Will check Sy's site too.

Questions:

1. As for XO components (or more general, I have a few older amps that need to be refreshed), where do you prefer buying these?

I've seen Mouser and Digi-something mentioned in other threads, but haven't ever gone beyond Radio Shack before in this area. I get the feeling mail order is it, right?

Are there perhaps any brick and mortar places around LA (northern LA: Santa Clarita, Burbank or Ontario are closest)? How about Fry's, or is their selection too computer related?

2. For fun I'm going to try and cut and assemble two rough enclosures today. I'm going to try to made one square and thus modify the depth to compensate. The other will be with the angled front, but with 3/4 MDF.

- if I keep the front baffle 7.5" the interior will be 1/2" wider, so I will shorten the depth.

Am I being too worried about small changes in enclosure volume?

------

SW wise I'm currently limited to the WinISD stuff, bassbox, and the latest DATS from Parts express. Prefer using Mac, but have PC available necessary. I used REW once to help measure an open baffle 3-way experiment using FIR software XO and one of the Tripath multichannel amps all on my Mac. This was some kind of voodoo combination of Soundflower (for the love of God could not figure out JackOSX), beta version of Plogue Bidule, and Matlab. Wish I had made some paper notes, that was about 2 years ago and I can't quite figure it out now. The goal was to learn if it could be done (more specifically if I could do it): use software XO and achieve pretty flat freq response in a multiway speaker. Worked out pretty well for a breadboard level approach.

Sorry, rambling again, but I think I'm heading towards this:

- it's a no-brainier to give the XO a shot given the schematics are available. That's the gold standard and it also allows normal/easy hookup to any normal amp.

- the Behringer DCX2496 will also be given a shot, maybe in the end this will be my sub/sat divider only.

- a digital XO (possibly with room correction) will be tested. Love this idea as a computer nut, especially as this was what really got me to take the plunge and try to build more than just a subwoofer. Downside is this isn't going to be something my wife will be turn on and using very easily ... or is that an upside, cough, umm, ...
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Old 2nd March 2013, 06:29 PM   #13
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Interesting ideas. Need to do a few things first, but this has some neat implications beyond just an awesome DIY speaker for my listening room.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB2 View Post
I think what I would do is to build the small towers as you have planned to match the original 3.3s. Take one of the towers positioned where it would be as a true 3.3, and place the one sub box behind it turned so that the woofer is in the correct location. Then build a copy of the original crossover - use this as your reference. We could probably find a modern drop in replacement for the 1259 and if you are willing to build a second box you could test it with the second tower, or measure the 1259 based system, then swap the drivers. It would be nice to have a known and tested drop in replacement for the 1259 - well really for all the drivers.
Do you have any interest in a second sub?
Then you could test an active version of the woofer to tower crossover, similar to what SY did, where you'd have the reference to be sure that they actually measure and sound the same.


This is probably the closest for the upper mid - I've not checked the specs:
The Madisound Speaker Store

I'd probably go with this for the tweeter even with the fabric dome since it will probably otherwise drop in with minimal changes - again I'd check the specs before final selection:
The Madisound Speaker Store

Edit: you could even put up a temporary baffle extension around the 1259 to give it the same size as the original 3.3 to make your reference closer to the original. Then you could see if there is a significant difference and look for ways to compensate in the active or even passive crossover.
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Old 2nd March 2013, 08:18 PM   #14
PB2 is offline PB2  United States
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I would not worry about small differences in internal volume, just make it the same externally. You can always add some fill, but you really won't have to.

Madisound, Parts Express, and Meniscus are my main sources for parts. Most ship fast, I would not worry about it. Oh, and Zalytron. Apex Jr. if you are interested in surplus parts.
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Old 2nd March 2013, 08:24 PM   #15
PB2 is offline PB2  United States
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Here are the 1259 specs that looks like the old Madisound ad:
NHT 1259

I believe that there was an early and late version of the 1259, that
looks like the early version.

Here are partial later specs I believe, Fs up to 19 Hz and a lower Vas,
the Qs also change but this will happen just due to the Fs change. Some
measured results also:
http://www.diysubwoofers.org/project...9/homepage.htm

The Infinity 1260W comes to mind as a potential replacement - simulations
would be required to confirm:
http://us.infinitysystems.com/tl_fil...260W_PI_EN.pdf
Same Xmax, and Rvc. Suspension is stiffer, but cone mass is higher,
might just end up compensating. Higher mass lowers efficiency, but it
has a stronger motor - higher Bl. They rate it at 93 dB/2.83 V, but
sealed response curve shows about 90 dB/2.83V in the passband. A
fairly inexpensive driver.
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Last edited by PB2; 2nd March 2013 at 08:51 PM.
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Old 2nd March 2013, 08:47 PM   #16
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Here is a .pdf of the MAD1259 that they say is different enough that they've renamed it:
http://www.madisound.com/pdf/MAD1259.pdf

They say it is not a direct replacement.
This might not actually be true, it looks as if the Vas, Fs, and Qts are a very close match
for what was measured here on actual 1259s:
http://www.diysubwoofers.org/project...9/homepage.htm
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Last edited by PB2; 2nd March 2013 at 09:00 PM.
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Old 2nd March 2013, 09:07 PM   #17
PB2 is offline PB2  United States
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Too late to edit my post.
Here are the official later specs, 19Hz Fs 190l Vas, note the incorrect info
for maxSPL vented, lol, that was in response to my suggestion on the Bass
List for vented alignments!
http://www.kenkantor.com/press_clipp...HT1259_FAQ.pdf



Quote:
Originally Posted by PB2 View Post
Here are the 1259 specs that looks like the old Madisound ad:
NHT 1259

I believe that there was an early and late version of the 1259, that
looks like the early version.

Here are partial later specs I believe, Fs up to 19 Hz and a lower Vas,
the Qs also change but this will happen just due to the Fs change. Some
measured results also:
Bill Eckle's NHT 1259 projects

The Infinity 1260W comes to mind as a potential replacement - simulations
would be required to confirm:
http://us.infinitysystems.com/tl_fil...260W_PI_EN.pdf
Same Xmax, and Rvc. Suspension is stiffer, but cone mass is higher,
might just end up compensating. Higher mass lowers efficiency, but it
has a stronger motor - higher Bl. They rate it at 93 dB/2.83 V, but
sealed response curve shows about 90 dB/2.83V in the passband. A
fairly inexpensive driver.
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Old 3rd March 2013, 03:45 AM   #18
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Default It's not pretty ... it's functional!

Got the sub inside and hooked up. I just got three new Carver PM1.5t amps and am using a sub out from my Denon AVR-3600 with a converter cable into one of the XLR inputs on the amp.

Oddly I couldn't get any sound from the first amp. There's a label on the back about 1.5 mV sensitivity, so maybe that's not what I'm used to with non-pro gear. Will have to see about that.

The pics show the internal bracing, my 1st ever attempt at soldering, and the very temporary setup in our formal dining/living room open area.

The Denon crosses are 80 Hz and I am using the VT-2s as "small" speakers driven by a Carver M4.0t.

Overall I like it. Maybe I'll try to figure out DATS or something tomorrow and see if I can measure test tones and response (REW maybe?).

Off to hopefully make some sawdust and sat enclosures.
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Old 3rd March 2013, 07:24 AM   #19
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Default Dry Fit Mockup

After stewing over this for what seemed like way to long, drawing up schematics over and over again (adjusting for 3/4 MDF or whatever), I kind of just took the original NHT schematic and started making sawdust tonight. I had decided from the beginning to start with the face plate and make it full length. Looking at the pictures now though I am going to have to double check the measurements tomorrow when I make the fixes and hopefully glue it up.

For example mitering the fronts of the sides. I just could not figure out what went wrong when the front baffle (nicely mitered at 21 degrees) didn't want to rest comfortably on top of the lower section sides. Once I cut the top I figured it out though. I might have cut the top side panel a little too narrow on the shorter side of the speaker. Other than that I am pretty sure everything either already fits or was cut slightly large and just needs to be trimmed properly.

I think the design looks excellent, much better than trying to adjust the middle horizontal higher in order make both enclosures have the same depth (although that would be a lot easier to construct). Looking way too far ahead, it might be worth having a cool looking design like this and a square box design where the user twists the speakers 21 degrees towards center on his own. That would open up construction to a lot more people.
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Old 3rd March 2013, 08:18 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibernator View Post

Are there perhaps any brick and mortar places around LA

(northern LA: Santa Clarita, Burbank or Ontario ...


might try here - several blocks west of van nuys on oxnard .

14928 Oxnard St. Van Nuys, CA 91411

All Electronics | Electronic and Electro-Mechanical Parts and Supplies at Discount Prices

Last edited by tomtt; 3rd March 2013 at 08:33 AM.
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