Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Multi-Way

Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 4th March 2013, 07:43 PM   #21
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Salt Lake City. Utah
Default Schematic

I plan to remove all the components from the boards. I am going to try using a small circular saw blade on my Dremel and cut on both sides of the leads on the back of the board. I should be able to lift up the piece of foil that is holding the lead to the board.
I am plotting out the schematic and am confused by the fact that the pot that is marked 'Woofer' is not connected into the woofer circuit at all. It is part of the midrange/tweeter circuit. What?
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th March 2013, 12:23 AM   #22
PB2 is offline PB2  United States
diyAudio Member
 
PB2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: North East
Blog Entries: 1
There are mid and tweeter L-pads it is that simple.
Nothing to do with the woofer.

From what I remember the boards had a lot of lacquer or silicone
on them don't remember exactly. I would clean them as best as
you can, and desolder the parts that need to come off. You might
need a high power (40W) iron to heat these large connections.
I would only use a dremel tool to
clean up any burned areas if there are any. I would not remove
any inductors, but test them at least for DC resistance to try
and see if any are badly shorted - I doubt it.

Also, test the L-pads since I think these speakers were over driven.
__________________
Pete Basel
http://www.linkedin.com/in/petebasel
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th March 2013, 06:55 PM   #23
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Salt Lake City. Utah
Default Soldering on board

I have attached a photo of the back of the board where all the connections are located. You can see where the leads have been bent over and a copper foil with aluminum backing has been placed over them to make the circuits. Then the whole board has a coating on it, to seal it. Since the aluminum side is up, soldering does not work. It would be easier to just make a new board and wire all the connections. The question is whether to use a blank board and drill the holes or use a pre drilled circuit board and fit the components. In that way, I will have solder pads built in. I feel that, in order to properly test all the components properly, I need to remove them from the board.
Joemusic
Attached Images
File Type: jpg PCB.jpg (362.2 KB, 123 views)
  Reply With Quote
Old 6th March 2013, 02:40 AM   #24
PB2 is offline PB2  United States
diyAudio Member
 
PB2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: North East
Blog Entries: 1
That looks like a circuit board to me, tinned copper.
What makes you think it is aluminum. It is very difficult
to solder to aluminum.
I would guess that if "soldering does not work" as you say that it
is because you do not have a large enough iron or there is too much
contamination from whatever was used to seal it.

You might try acetone (nail polish remover) or Goo off and a wire
brush outdoors or in a well ventilated area to remove the sealer.
You really only have to clean the areas where the leads are bent over
and you might want to try a very small wire brush on the dremel tool.

I'd like to see a picture of the other side if you have one.
__________________
Pete Basel
http://www.linkedin.com/in/petebasel

Last edited by PB2; 6th March 2013 at 02:46 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 6th March 2013, 07:57 PM   #25
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Salt Lake City. Utah
Default Foil traces.

This board is made up of layers. You have a bare circuit board that has the holes drilled through it . They, then placed the components on the front side and pushed the leads through to the back where they bent them over and cut them about a 1/8" long. Once all the leads are in the back, they cover certain areas with a foil that is copper on one side and aluminum on the other. These made the circuits. Then they coated the whole thing with a sealer.
I have remove a small piece of the foil by scrapping the coating off and then, using a razor blade, cut a square out of the foil and lifted it off the board. In essence, making a simple circuit board. There are place where they have soldered wires on top the foil; but, I think that they have, in some way, removed the aluminum layer and soldered to the copper.
As for the drivers affected, I have one blown woofer and all the rest test OK.
My plan is to make a PCB that will make the same connections as the foil did.
Joe
Attached Images
File Type: jpg pcbfront.jpg (324.7 KB, 115 views)

Last edited by joemusic; 6th March 2013 at 08:00 PM. Reason: Add photo
  Reply With Quote
Old 6th March 2013, 10:34 PM   #26
DavidL is offline DavidL  United States
diyAudio Member
 
DavidL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Looks like they used too low a wattage on the resistors , no wonder they finally burnt out and YIKES could they have possibly crammed more components CLOSER together? I would make a larger board maybe out of peg board and give myself plenty of room for spacing out things.
  Reply With Quote
Old 7th March 2013, 12:16 AM   #27
gootee is offline gootee  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Indiana
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by joemusic View Post
This board is made up of layers. You have a bare circuit board that has the holes drilled through it . They, then placed the components on the front side and pushed the leads through to the back where they bent them over and cut them about a 1/8" long. Once all the leads are in the back, they cover certain areas with a foil that is copper on one side and aluminum on the other. These made the circuits. Then they coated the whole thing with a sealer.
I have remove a small piece of the foil by scrapping the coating off and then, using a razor blade, cut a square out of the foil and lifted it off the board. In essence, making a simple circuit board. There are place where they have soldered wires on top the foil; but, I think that they have, in some way, removed the aluminum layer and soldered to the copper.
As for the drivers affected, I have one blown woofer and all the rest test OK.
My plan is to make a PCB that will make the same connections as the foil did.
Joe
I don't see anything like what you are describing, on the back of the board.

The leads are clearly bent over on TOP of the metal traces, and were probably all soldered to it. It looks like it is just standard tinned copper.

It looks like a standard PCB fabrication, where the leads were pushed through from the top, bent over against the traces for mechanical strength and for a larger electrical connection area, and soldered to the tinned copper traces. (I don't quite understand why they also put traces on the component side. Are any of the leads soldered on the top side? Are the trace patterns the same everywhere, on the top and the bottom of the board?)

What makes you think they applied some sort of bi-mettalic foil AFTER the leads were pushed through the holes and bent over?? The leads wouldn't even be soldered to the traces, that way! And there is no way they could have used a crimped-on sheet of metal with some sort of adhesive to hold it on, and had good-enough connections.

Maybe you should try desoldering some of the leads, on the back, so you can see that there is a hole in the silver tinned trace, where each lead comes through it.

Last edited by gootee; 7th March 2013 at 12:36 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 7th March 2013, 12:34 AM   #28
gootee is offline gootee  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Indiana
Blog Entries: 1
While you're at it, you could replace the electrolytic caps with polypropylene, from someplace like parts-express.com or madisound.com . They will be much larger but might sound better, and, mainly, will last much longer.
  Reply With Quote
Old 7th March 2013, 04:35 PM   #29
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Colorado, USA
Quote:
Originally Posted by joemusic View Post
This board is made up of layers. You have a bare circuit board that has the holes drilled through it . They, then placed the components on the front side and pushed the leads through to the back where they bent them over and cut them about a 1/8" long. Once all the leads are in the back, they cover certain areas with a foil that is copper on one side and aluminum on the other. These made the circuits. Then they coated the whole thing with a sealer.
I have remove a small piece of the foil by scrapping the coating off and then, using a razor blade, cut a square out of the foil and lifted it off the board. In essence, making a simple circuit board. There are place where they have soldered wires on top the foil; but, I think that they have, in some way, removed the aluminum layer and soldered to the copper.
As for the drivers affected, I have one blown woofer and all the rest test OK.
My plan is to make a PCB that will make the same connections as the foil did.
Joe
I don't get it. I've repaired/updated many crossovers.

It seems you're making this WAY too complicated. If they were my speakers, I would simply assume the coils are OK, because they almost never go bad, then lift one end of each of the resistors and measure them to make sure they are OK, and then simply replace the five electrolytic caps, either with new non polarized electrolytics, or film if you want to spend money on something you probably won't be able to hear. Then hit the L pads with with Deoxit, rotate the hell out of them until you get tired of it, then hit them with Fader Lube. Test it simply by hooking up a mid range driver to all three outputs with the crossover connected to an amp playing music or voice and be done with it. Besides waiting for the replacement caps it should take about half an hour. Finding a matching replacement woofer is what you should be spending your time on.

Last edited by audiomagnate; 7th March 2013 at 04:39 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 7th March 2013, 07:12 PM   #30
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Salt Lake City. Utah
Default Lead connection.

I will be dissecting the lead to board attachment in the next few days. I have the small circular saw blades for my dremel and will slit the 'foil' on either side of the leads and lift it off. I will photograph it as I go, so that we can actually see what Vandersteen did. I do agree with you that some of the components are too small in capacity. I was thinking of using a large resistor in place of the three smaller ones that burnt out.
Joemusic
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Vandersteen 2ce crossover repair chriso1 Multi-Way 27 12th April 2013 11:25 AM
Vandersteen 2ci Ty_Bower Swap Meet 2 3rd April 2011 05:47 AM
Looking for Vandersteen 2ci woofer for sale marara04 Full Range 0 18th March 2011 11:49 PM
Vandersteen 2ci speaker parts olyken Swap Meet 1 13th October 2008 10:50 PM
Vandersteen 2ci crossover repair olyken Multi-Way 1 27th September 2008 04:00 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 02:00 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2