Design: Horn High Sensitivity Speakers

[weltersys]

is that not how it is with the biggest compression drivers ?

The BMS 4590 is a co-axial compression driver with two annular diaphragms.

On a non-beaming horn, it could have much wider HF dispersion.

 

[Jack Arnott]

That horn driver combination has only half the dispersion at 15K as at 1K.
If you consider that good dispersion, what does a bad dispersion look like ?

Hi Art, how are you doing?

OTOH, this horn has almost 90 degree dispersion at 15K. That is pretty good. To me its more that it loses its pattern control, not that it doesn't have enough HF dispersion.

 

[charly chile]

Based on discussion here, I conclude that combing filtering won't be important for highs, so a Tweeter could be added later, if there is not easy solution with the horn implementation.

What I really dislike about designing this Horn, is that all the Mids (<1khz) are performed by the Woofer.
Wondering how big the horn has to be to cut lower.
I also have seen implementations with a Bruce Edgar Mid horn.

Do you think this affects mid (vocal) quality?
What are your thoughts?

Cheers!
Carlos

 

[tinitus]

... so a Tweeter could be added later....

no
small tweeters does not match well with bigger mid horns

What I really dislike about designing this Horn, is that all the Mids (<1khz) are performed by the Woofer.

depends on the woofer type, and size ofcourse

you need a relatively big midhorn/waveguide with a cone driver
and a realtively big waveguide on top, with 1" driver

midhorn is best lifted off the floor (unless its very big and able to stand on its own)
a sub of whatever design could be convenient for that, but doesnt have to be

its really not be a matter of what might be the best
but much more about what you will be able to make work

its really pointless to suggest a design if you dont understand what it takes to make it work

 

[charly chile]

someone is selling 4 beymas 12ml100 in chile, at USA prices.
This seems to be a 12 inch driver that can reach 40hz in bass reflex enclosure !!??

Should I replace my pair of Eminence Omega Pro 18 for a pair of Beymas 12ml100?
I would like to doit if I am getting more Finesse and subtleness in the midrange.
And of course, thinking in adding a Horn on top.

If it reaches 40hz solid, sounds a good deal to me...

 

[tinitus]

thinking twice about it....I would definately suggest a very big mid waveguide and big tweeter ditto

subs are secondary add ons

edit, I had not seen your previous post before this, sorry

 

[tinitus]

someone is selling 4 beymas 12ml100 in chile, at USA prices.
This seems to be a 12 inch driver that can reach 40hz in bass reflex enclosure !!??

you mean 12MI100 ?
no, its a big midrange only
not enough Xmax to play much bass, high Fs, very low Qts
a genuine midhorn driver

might work well in a big midhorn rolling off 100-150hz

 

[charly chile]

Thanks. Data sheet said up to 40hz in bass reflex enclosure, then I thought it could be good to blend with a horn.

 

[tinitus]

Thanks. Data sheet said up to 40hz in bass reflex enclosure....

then we are not looking at the same driver
mine say 94hz in BR

 

[Cal Weldon]

you mean 12MI100 ?

I think he means these. ML not MI

Liquido 4 Woofers Beyma 12ml100, 450 Watts Rms (nuevos) - $ 98.750 en MercadoLibre

 

[tinitus]

old woofer I guess ?
not on Beyma web site

special Brasilian remake ?

 

[charly chile]

I think he means these. ML not MI

Liquido 4 Woofers Beyma 12ml100, 450 Watts Rms (nuevos) - $ 98.750 en MercadoLibre

Right Cal,
OB Freq. response arround 100hz. But specs claim a 40hz - 4khz operation range. Wondering if this could be a quality solution to have 40hz big open bass but also midrange quality to blend with a horn.

 

[charly chile]

i think they are just a mispelling.
Here they are,
Beyma Speakers - Beyma 12M300 speaker - Beyma 12M300 600 watt 12" woofer for all mid-bass applications. Beyma 12M300 mid-bass and other Beyma 12" speakers here.
still claiming 40hz-4khz operation
but Bass Reflex of 30L and tunning of 94hz provides response down to 100hz.

Sorry for being too noob if you point me to the right speaker simulation software I will put the T/S parameters to review its response, depending on its volume thanks

In Brazil, I am just aware of Selenium that was adquired by JBL.

 

[weltersys]

Hi Art, how are you doing?

OTOH, this horn has almost 90 degree dispersion at 15K. That is pretty good. To me its more that it loses its pattern control, not that it doesn't have enough HF dispersion.

Doing fine, up to no good..

You are right, only a small mid driver would have 140 degree dispersion at 1K, making that horn a bit of an odd duck- goes low, but very wide in the usual horn/15" crossover region.

 

[mitchba]

Hi Carlos,

I love high efficiency horns too and using a Nelson Pass DIY Class A amp from way back. I like Bob Crite's Cornscala 3-way design and went with this one: Cornscala Style C | Critesspeakers.com The overall system efficiency is around 100dB according to Mr. Crites.

The xover points are 500/5000Hz. The Bob Crites 15" (Eminence) woofer is very stiff in the QB3 vented box that measures down to 32Hz.

The M2380 horn mated to the Selenium D405 2" driver (not the titanium version), in my humble opinion, is one of the best midranges I have heard. Never harsh and very dynamic.

I am not as enamored with the Selenium D220Ti 1" driver. My measurements with REW shows it rolls-off pretty quick at the top end and to my ears sounds metallic and harsh. REW distortion measurements confirm this.

Recently I was in Toronto at The Speaker Shop and picked up a pair of Flick Systems CP27 1" screw-on drivers for the same price as the D220Ti ($45 each). They are also a phenolic diaphragm like the D405's and sound excellent, no metallic harshness and REW confirms lower distortion.

I also picked up a pair of BMS 4540ND from Assitance Audio - BMS I have not swapped them into the system yet as I am enjoying the CP27's.

All the best in your horn quest!

Cheers,

Mitch

 

[charly chile]

Thanks Mitch, this is going to take a while.
I enjoy the process of learining and sharing opinions.
The SET Amp will arrive home probably in march, in the meantime I am sanding and painting "white" my current OBs just to show some respect to my wife and to practice my painting and sanding skills.
Thanks for the tips on stores in Toronto, I go there once in a while (some relatives there).

 

[charly chile]

During my net research, I've read good feedback about those Cornscalas.
I think SQ is the most important it doesn't mean your speakers have to look ugly.
I guess those cornscalas with a good wood work and some grills could look owesome, so they can honor their good review.

 

[mitchba]

I imagine you are excited to receive the SET amp!

Attached is a (corny) photo of my finished Cornscala's without grills - I do have the grills.

I did a fair bit of research as well, which led me to the Cornscala's. Attached is the frequency response at the listening position

This is using Audiolense Digital Room Correction software. My target response is -3 dB at 32 Hz, flat to and hinge at 1 kHz, with a straight line to -6 dB at 20 kHz.

I am happy with the SQ. The last bit for me is choosing the HF compression driver.

Cheers!

 

[charly chile]

That looks pretty sharp.
How much tube power do you have per channel?
I guess you are using only one stereo amplifier.

 

[Helmuth]

Hi Carlos,
The M2380 horn mated to the Selenium D405 2" driver (not the titanium version), in my humble opinion, is one of the best midranges I have heard. Never harsh and very dynamic.


Cheers,

Mitch

I personally like the brightness of a metallic dome. IMO harness comes bad from wiring poor capacitors and wire wound resistors in the cross over.

Again do not judge to early when you not did enough crossover work. Try other capacitors metal oxide resistors and try copper wire in different gauge or tinned copper. And silver plated copper and carbon or carbon copper wire.

I had a huge tuning difference with the bi-wire set by testing different loudspeaker wires.