Design: Horn High Sensitivity Speakers

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Here a symulation with a closed backside it works fine probably the best solution and most compact.
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2pi
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1pi
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2pi with 35 liter backside enclosure to reach more flat response in the 2pi radiation down to 56Hz 104dB 1W meter.

I would tune the raising character down so it the sensitivity raises to lower frequencies.

So maximum spl with 5W 110dB 1meter
 

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Better closed tuning bigger throat area.
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2pi response. 104dB 1wmtr down to 52 Hz. Build your own low cost la scala with a fine quality 15 driver.
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I am very grateful for your advice. It s clear that DIYAudio was the place to look for.
I need to read all the posts more carefully, for a next round of questions. Your feed ack is so great!

1) two drivers is a good idea, means I don't need 2405, I really like that driver and wanted to have it. My question is: with only one horn going up to 18k, is it going to beam too much? When I think in horns, I think in fullness so would be disappointing to find that it only sounds good in a narrow hotspot (like my new fe126 I was testing in open baffle).

2) my woofer eminence omega 18a is good with a 400hz XO, gives big bass, moves lots of air giving a unique feeling. But I think it is very nasty with voices when approaching the mid range. Are all woofers that nasty? Or it is just beacause mine is cheap?
Will a beyma or 18sound perform more nicely in the 500hz zone where I am blending with the horn?

I will write autotech to figure out how much would be shipping for those le cleach/iwata horns.

Best!
Charly
 
Ex-Moderator R.I.P.
Joined 2005
2) my woofer eminence omega 18a is good with a 400hz XO, gives big bass, moves lots of air giving a unique feeling. But I think it is very nasty with voices when approaching the mid range. Are all woofers that nasty? Or it is just beacause mine is cheap?
Will a beyma or 18sound perform more nicely in the 500hz zone where I am blending with the horn?

no, 18" is not just 18"

I havent heard it, but quite sure the 18" Faital 18FH500 have better midrange
and there may be others
but ofcourse big woofers with nice midrange are not many :p
normally a woofer with better midrange would be 15"

well, please remember I suggested a 12" in fronloaded horn down to 100hz
and a simple vented BR sub below that
not without a reason ;)

and btw, normal average SPL could be around 96db
 
I'd recommend expanding your speaker's width a bit more than your 50 CM. Depth can be reduced some. A wider profile not only allows for lager wave-guides, it also provides a reduction in sound pressure loss from the baffle-step region.

This waveguide:

Fiberglass SEOS-24? DIY Sound Group

(..which is a wider dispersion design than others.)

This driver:

ND1460A - HF Neodymium Driver

The midbass really depends on the sort of volume you want for the enclosure vs. the sort of low freq. extension you want. You will want it as efficient as possible.

As Helmuth has mentioned this is a good one:

15MB606 - Very High Output MB Ferrite Driver

..but one of the Beymas may be better for your needs.

-look for drivers with low mms.
 
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1) My question is: with only one horn going up to 18k, is it going to beam too much?

2) my woofer eminence omega 18a is good with a 400hz XO, gives big bass, moves lots of air giving a unique feeling. But I think it is very nasty with voices when approaching the mid range. Are all woofers that nasty? Or it is just beacause mine is cheap?
Will a beyma or 18sound perform more nicely in the 500hz zone where I am blending with the horn?
Charlie,
1) A conical expansion horn can have uniform dispersion to 18K.
Most good horns have polar charts so you can determine dispersion at various frequencies.
The JBL 2405 dispersion patterns are rather unusual, and not very uniform.
2) Using first order crossovers, the six dB peak the Eminence Omega 18a has around 1500 Hz would be clearly audible.
If you are using only a coil for a crossover, the peaky response might actually be worse than it looks on the graph.

There are some 18" that sound OK in the midrange, but most good two way designs use 15" cones, as an 18" beams at a lower frequency than a 15", requiring a crossover too low for a 1.75" diaphragm driver to sound good.
 

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I had some thoughts for you:
I ask about 15" woofers. Here are the responses
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/228498-looking-recomendations-15-woofers.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/228494-looking-recomendations-15-woofers.html

It looks like some of the Pro woofers are designed to play up to where their directivity matches a horn, and others will not.

If I were you, I would prototype your system with the Mini-DSp you have.
You are probably going to need a tweeter, but I would try it as a 2 way first.
I think a Mini-DIG will be your best option, with your DAC running the horn, and lesser DAC's for the Woofers and Tweeters.

As you can see, I am looking at the same things you are.
Good luck.
I will be interested in what you find.
 
If you go to Doctor Boar; DIY loudspeakers and HiFi and scroll down to "Kuben" that is a simplified version of the La Scala. There are two things to notice.

1. Low pass frequency is way higher than predicted by 2Fr/Qes
2. You get more bass close to cutoff if you have a driver with higher Q and lower Fr. No free lunch though, sensitivity goes down and if you have to much of it there will be a peak at cut off.
 
I am very grateful for your advice. It s clear that DIYAudio was the place to look for.
I need to read all the posts more carefully, for a next round of questions. Your feed ack is so great!

1) two drivers is a good idea, means I don't need 2405, I really like that driver and wanted to have it. My question is: with only one horn going up to 18k, is it going to beam too much? When I think in horns, I think in fullness so would be disappointing to find that it only sounds good in a narrow hotspot (like my new fe126 I was testing in open baffle).
Jbl drivers where very innovative and the top 30 years ago and their technique is still modern at this moment, others copied ideas of jbl and are also very nice HF-drivers.
A super tweeter does often not better then 40 degrees of axes. So they are the same as these E-jmlc.

Then I would go for the E-jmlc 600 horn for good dispersion see sonogram. It needs a 1" driver that makes good dispersion. And very good low end for a 1" driver. XO 700Hz 4 order.
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Other option is a e-jmlc for 2" driver. very good dispersion also at 10kHz. would be my choice so you can cross low.
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2) my woofer eminence omega 18a is good with a 400hz XO, gives big bass, moves lots of air giving a unique feeling. But I think it is very nasty with voices when approaching the mid range. Are all woofers that nasty? Or it is just beacause mine is cheap?
Will a beyma or 18sound perform more nicely in the 500hz zone where I am blending with the horn?

I will write autotech to figure out how much would be shipping for those le cleach/iwata horns.

Best!
Charly
big woofers have often low distortion I do not know about the omega 18a, I think that is a good driver. The efficiency is only more near the 95dB 1Wmeter. You can make a 3Way with the omega18 as a subwoofer. Then you need a midrange 150-500/800Hz.
 
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High efficient sub with omega 18A 3way 100dB system

This will make filtering much easier normal second order 3 way. XO 250Hz and 1500Hz. The mid range and seos wave guide will make a very small monitor speaker and a big frontloaded horn sub.

101dB in 2pi down to -3dB 45Hz!
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This is great to combine with a dedicated high efficient midrange.
RCF MR10N301 100dB 1Wmtr No horn no coloration
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RCF - MR10N301

Now you can cros at 2kHz and use a seos 10 wave guide. With a 1" B&C DE250. Or a selenium one.
Look at the good dispersion. And no horn coloration.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
 

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Ex-Moderator R.I.P.
Joined 2005
This is great to combine with a dedicated high efficient midrange.
RCF MR10N301 100dB 1Wmtr No horn no coloration
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.

I see RCF have added a response curve for horn loading :cool:
then its up to the sensitivity of a horn tweeter

and for that, how about a PPSL sub with 4x 18" woofers :eek::D
 
Design of the box 101dB 45-20000Hz 2pi. I call it " The super la scala ".

Filter idea for sub 1 order low 100Hz
Midrange 1 order high 200Hz and second order low 1000Hz
High second order high 1000Hz

How to hide a mega front horn.
A 1,4 meter high front horn 45cmX55cm. With midrange and seos 10 wave guide. Closed volume omega18 must be reduced to 55 liter.
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Horn mouth to the front it will help to reach the 1,2 meter horn length easier.

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1pi output of the mega sub front horn. with the first order 100hz filter it will make 106dB 1 meter! -3dB 40Hz! 102dB. That is the output box placed near backwall.
With a 5W amplifier this will make a mighty 112dB at 1 meter.

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Omega 18A sub horn placed in the corner ½ pi. With first order low filter 110dB -3dB 37Hz 1 meter. -10dB 30Hz 100dB 1Wmtr Like?
When you build the front horn like I did design, the corner placement is easy.

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looks clever Helmuth, but make it twice as big(wider) :D
??

Then it will not meet the simulation.
Horn mouth 2000 square cm = 45X45 cm, it is a smart horn design with low horn coloration and very high efficiency and relative compact. And without a faulty super tweeter.

Who does better? -3dB 37Hz and 110dB 1wmtr.

Even the wood work will be easy witch ads to be a smart design.

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