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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 18th February 2013, 10:33 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by balerit View Post
2-way system 2500 Hz.
3-way system 500 and 4500 Hz.
Very definitive statement in a very undefined area, care to elaborate a bit?

It would exclude the use of Tannoy DualConcentrics and ATC 3" domes for ever, two drivers I personally am very fond of.
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Old 18th February 2013, 10:49 AM   #32
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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Originally Posted by lolo View Post
Really? Check the sensitivity curves, you will be surprised.. It's not because some people have done some proeminent research in some fields that everything they say is true. The 100-500 area is VERY important..
Indeed it is...very important. That's not what I said. We are less sensitive to diffraction and to the imaging being skewed by reflections at these frequencies. Reflections are still a problem, and not constraining these frequencies in a narrow pattern still leaves us to clean up the colourations.

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BTW, where is the research saying that the highs need beaming?
It has been shown that diffraction and early reflections cause issues especially at higher frequencies. These define the choice to constrain the highs.
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Old 18th February 2013, 01:23 PM   #33
balerit is offline balerit  South Africa
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Originally Posted by Charles Darwin View Post
Very definitive statement in a very undefined area, care to elaborate a bit?

It would exclude the use of Tannoy DualConcentrics and ATC 3" domes for ever, two drivers I personally am very fond of.
Those points have been the professional choice since the 50's, give or take a few Hz either way.
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Old 18th February 2013, 01:38 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by balerit View Post
Those points have been the professional choice since the 50's, give or take a few Hz either way.
Not at all. I would say your prescription errs heavily on the high side, but it all depends on driver size, driver behaviour, filter order, desired dispersion, just to name a few.
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Old 18th February 2013, 02:20 PM   #35
Jay is offline Jay  Indonesia
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Originally Posted by tvrgeek View Post
I don't quite get your correlation with physiology and crossovers. Have you done these same tests with many different drivers, or for these drivers that is where your perception tells you they are happy? For the drivers you mention, these seem very reasonable values, but if you were to try the listening tests with say, Vifa XT-25, you may find a very different result in they really do not like being used that low.
Yep, similar to XT25, the Revelator has that unreasonable low crossover capability. I think even if the size of the dome is big, physically it is not possible for any dome to produce wide frequency band well. After XT25 and Revelator, I don't believe in wideband tweeter.

ATC has wide dome but for limited band use only (midrange). That's probably the best midrange.
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Old 18th February 2013, 02:52 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by balerit View Post
Those points have been the professional choice since the 50's, give or take a few Hz either way.
I doubt that somehow.

Tannoy DualConcentrics have been a popular professional choice since the '50s.
Being 2ways the crossover points depend on the driver size and are 1000Hz for 15", 1200Hz for 12" and 1400Hz for 10".

ATCs are a very popular professional choice since the '70s. Crossover points are almost invariably 380Hz and 3800Hz.
Klein&Hummel/Neumann also use ATC 3" domes for mids with 600Hz & 2k points and Quested as well as PMC also use 3" domes (Quested use Volt VM752, PMC their own design) with almost identical crossover points to ATC.
RE Geithain use their own drivers AFAIK, crossover points depend on model and are either 550 and 2200Hz, 550 & 2.8k, 250Hz & 2.6kHz, 650 & 2.8k, 700 & 3.2k etc.

It all depends on the actual drivers used.
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Old 18th February 2013, 09:11 PM   #37
tvrgeek is offline tvrgeek  United States
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Originally Posted by Jay View Post
Yep, similar to XT25, the Revelator has that unreasonable low crossover capability. I think even if the size of the dome is big, physically it is not possible for any dome to produce wide frequency band well. After XT25 and Revelator, I don't believe in wideband tweeter.

ATC has wide dome but for limited band use only (midrange). That's probably the best midrange.
The ATC has been mentioned in these pages before. It's not widely available here and a bit on the steep side. Sure would like to play with a pair. I have one problem with midranges. Just too big to fit on a 17 inch high baffle with a 6 1/2 inch woofer and dome tweeter. You are forced to a bigger box. I am looking at smaller tweeters.
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Old 18th February 2013, 09:28 PM   #38
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I think the magnet of the ATC mid dome is about 8" in diameter.
Probably not the best match for a 6.5" 'woofer'.

Still it's cheaper than the 3" Volt dome.
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Old 19th February 2013, 09:33 PM   #39
markusA is offline markusA  Sweden
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The reason why I like to take the crossover into consideration before anything else is because it will aid in choosing the right drivers to fit the design goal.

Personally I'm open for all sorts of ideas.
I could just as well opt for active digital crossover with a fullrange driver + woofer.
Add some FIR filters and maybe some ideas from Linkwitz to extend the bass.

Still I enjoy understanding the math and the mechanics behind it all.
No point in using a lot of high tech stuff to put a band aid on a poor design if I can do it right from the beginning.
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Old 19th February 2013, 09:36 PM   #40
OllBoll is offline OllBoll  Sweden
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Originally Posted by markusA View Post
The reason why I like to take the crossover into consideration before anything else is because it will aid in choosing the right drivers to fit the design goal.

Personally I'm open for all sorts of ideas.
I could just as well opt for active digital crossover with a fullrange driver + woofer.
Add some FIR filters and maybe some ideas from Linkwitz to extend the bass.

Still I enjoy understanding the math and the mechanics behind it all.
No point in using a lot of high tech stuff to put a band aid on a poor design if I can do it right from the beginning.
Isn't exactly the opposite what you should be doing since the crossover points are mostly determined by the limitations of the chosen drivers?
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