Noob needing advice - Driver cost vs Sound Quality Estimates - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Multi-Way

Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12th February 2013, 06:35 PM   #1
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Default Noob needing advice - Driver cost vs Sound Quality Estimates

I'm relatively new to the forum but have been a long time lurker. I'm looking to take the plunge into DIY Audio for several reasons:

1) I enjoy Audio and am transition from heavy Home theater use to more of a dedicated 2ch listener.
2) I love learning, but I don't have the time to learn everything I want to learn so I bounce from hobby to hobby.
3) I enjoy building, wood working, tinkering with electronics, and DIY projects

Before I dive in too deep I want to make sure I can accomplish my goals:

1) Improve my sound quality and create something that competes with Paradigm S8's
2) Keep cost to a few thousand for a front pair of floor standing loudspeakers

Specific speaker requirements:
1) aesthetically pleasing, I find the S8's look awesome and like their narrow profile.
2) Full range. I have a sub (will likely get a better and/or more) for LFE in HT but in 2ch listening I prefer a full range speaker, thus my preference towards something like the S8's
3) Very transparent and articulate. I enjoy a 3 dimensional soundstage
4) Fast lower ranger. IMO B&W woofers fail to keep up with the mid's and highs and I don't feel as if the mid and high balance on the B&W's are as flat as the paradigms (thus using them as the reference point)
5) Reasonable SPL, it doesn't have to be as high as the S8's (92db)

Things I have/have not liked about other speakers:
RTi12's (currently own) had good range but lacked detail and subtly (expected)
802/800d - lacked low end performance, a bit warm on the high end. Not quick enough (I still really liked them)
Paradigm Studios 100v5's? - Better then my RTi12's but once in the room with the S6's the detail and accuracy was very very apparent
Magenpan - Sounded nice up high, lacked down low of course and size was a no go
Electrostats (don't remember model) - Don't like how directional the planer tends to be. Overall though, nice sounding upper end. Missing a faster lower end.

Signature S8 - Welcome to the New Official Paradigm® Website.

I realize I'm a noob and have a lot I don't know. Before jumping in to learn all of this I want to know if I can accomplish my goals.

I'll be driving them with my Rotel 500 watt RMS @8ohm monoblocks (1091's). I'll build a matching center channel and rears at some point as well.

As a secondary project, how cheaply could one build a set of bookshelf speakers that relatively compare with RTi6's? A neighbor of mine is using my 6's and a DIY project wouldn't be a bad choice for him considering cost.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th February 2013, 07:43 PM   #2
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: US
The "Elsinore Project" Thread

http://www.customanalogue.com/elsino...nore_index.htm
__________________
perspective is everything
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th February 2013, 08:09 PM   #3
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: New England
On the face of your thread title, I will offer the following:

Don't think linear regarding cost vs performance in the audio. It's a non-linear world that follows the law of diminishing returns. Oh, it will be linear for a while during the initial stages, but then as you spend more and more beyond a certain point, the added sonic benifits will not be in direct proportion to the money spent.
__________________
"It's all about the music!"
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th February 2013, 08:12 PM   #4
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by speakerdoctor View Post
On the face of your thread title, I will offer the following:

Don't think linear regarding cost vs performance in the audio. It's a non-linear world that follows the law of diminishing returns. Oh, it will be linear for a while during the initial stages, but then as you spend more and more beyond a certain point, the added sonic benefits will not be in direct proportion to the money spent.
That's absolutely true, even purchased brands. I feel where the quality I want is should be around the S8's with the cost a bit more reasonable.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th February 2013, 08:23 PM   #5
jcx is offline jcx  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: ..
GedLee 2-way waveguide kits? - not too much scope for woodworking with the baffle/waveguide though

the baffle width is needed for the directivity control

Last edited by jcx; 12th February 2013 at 08:32 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th February 2013, 09:01 PM   #6
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcx View Post
GedLee 2-way waveguide kits? - not too much scope for woodworking with the baffle/waveguide though

the baffle width is needed for the directivity control
I'm fairly decent at wood working so that shouldn't be a problem. I've also built enclosures before.

I've got a decent table saw, jointer, thickness planer, 14" bandsaw, and router/router table at my disposal.

I'll check them out
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th February 2013, 09:02 PM   #7
tvrgeek is offline tvrgeek  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Md
For reference: My modified versions of the Zaph SR-71 were the first to beat my Paradigm Studio 20's. Paradigm may be mainstream, but the know what they are doing for the price. Doing better is not easy.

Unless you are building a well established design EXACTLLY, starting with a big full range system and worrying about aesthetics is not the place to start. Even the radius of the baffle edge makes a considerable difference. Change the width of a design to make it look better? Well, now you have a different speaker and need to do a different crossover. First build you want success, so follow the instructions.

I suspect most here will agree, execution is paramount, no matter how good the drivers are. A bad crossover will make an air-circ stink. But if you use an XT25 above 3K, it is a darn good tweeter for $35. Now, that said, it was not until I stepped up to the mid-line Seas that I got the distortion down to my wife's acceptance. A $25 tweeter, be it from Madisound, or in a $1000 store bought speaker, just like mstang says, there are thresholds. The difference from a $25 Vifa to a $60 Seas is huge. The difference to the $180 Scan Speak is small. I have no idea what a $500 tweeter sounds like. Out of my pay grade.

Here is a test. Go listen the the ugliest speaker for sale, the Vanderstein 2Ce. Take a lot of music you know. What are you going to do better? I will warn you, that is a really hard question. This is of course what makes this hobby so much fun.

There are some very good published designs, and some very good kits. Of course, there are some horrible published dissing and terrible kits too. Do some reading and check back. Someone may have well built what you are looking at.

I would love to hear the Gedlee's. The form factor does not fit my needs or I would have bought a set. Elisnore thread has been going on for years being refined. Look at the Linkwitz site for his ideas. Very different, but informative. Check out Zaph for his general comments, as well as TrueAudio. Check out the Seas site for their published designs.
  Reply With Quote
Old 13th February 2013, 02:05 AM   #8
Bare is offline Bare  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: vancouver
Spend on the drivers.
Boxes are only of effect at or below 200hz
Wayyy too many become so enamoured of the crates they cobble together in their man caves, that they forget what part is actually producing the sounds.. and why.
Cheapy drivers in simple boxes give the most rewarding results.
Could do like I did and buy a fresh pair of Lowthers, subsequently devote the next 2+ years to crafting increasingly complex enclosures in what ultimately proved (frankly) a Wild Goose Chase.
Some things one has to learn for themselves :-)
G'luck on your adventure.
  Reply With Quote
Old 13th February 2013, 02:23 AM   #9
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: MN
Quote:
Originally Posted by tvrgeek View Post
For reference: My modified versions of the Zaph SR-71 were the first to beat my Paradigm Studio 20's. Paradigm may be mainstream, but the know what they are doing for the price. Doing better is not easy.
+1. The drivers in the S8 can't be terribly expensive and I think you could afford better ones in your budget (much better if you're not using so many), but better drivers won't buy you a better speaker design. If you're looking at kits / published designs, you'll need to find something you can hear or at least someone that is familiar with the design and with your reference, or accept the possibility that your choice may not meet your expectations. If you're looking at scratch building, you should be focused on learning how to do it (and getting set up with measurement gear), not besting $4000 speakers.
  Reply With Quote
Old 13th February 2013, 03:33 PM   #10
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by dumptruck View Post
+1. The drivers in the S8 can't be terribly expensive and I think you could afford better ones in your budget (much better if you're not using so many), but better drivers won't buy you a better speaker design. If you're looking at kits / published designs, you'll need to find something you can hear or at least someone that is familiar with the design and with your reference, or accept the possibility that your choice may not meet your expectations. If you're looking at scratch building, you should be focused on learning how to do it (and getting set up with measurement gear), not besting $4000 speakers.
It would be interested to know what their drivers cost and what the actual performance is. I think there would be a lot of cost in the tweeter (it's Be) and the work they go through to make it sounds pretty extensive. The surrounds on the woofers also sounds unique but I can see a higher quality traditionally designed driver being as good.

This seemed to have a few details but could also be somebody just spouting off non-sense.
The Audio Beat - Paradigm Reference Signature S8 v3 Loudspeakers
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Noob/Neo needing sound advice... kutnupe8 Multi-Way 3 10th September 2011 01:25 PM
Noob needing help. icor1031 Subwoofers 43 26th March 2011 12:41 AM
Noob needing sub for gigs. mrbobian Subwoofers 20 7th May 2008 09:57 AM
Advice on highest quality full range driver deandob Full Range 39 13th December 2005 01:45 PM
Noob - Needing help deciding what Gainclone design to use tsnyder41 Chip Amps 5 19th May 2003 11:54 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 10:29 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2