Noob needing advice - Driver cost vs Sound Quality Estimates

[Charles Darwin]

Originally Posted by Bare

Could do like I did and buy a fresh pair of Lowthers, subsequently devote the next 2+ years to crafting increasingly complex enclosures in what ultimately proved (frankly) a Wild Goose Chase.
Some things one has to learn for themselves :-)
G'luck on your adventure.

When I was 16 I was lucky enough to find a shop in my neighbourhood which had Lowthers in all sorts of cabs on demo.
The hours I spend there cured me of having any interest in them for life.
Lowthers remain my benchmark for a truly terrible speaker to this day.

[tvrgeek]

Leaning back on my old days in manufacturing....
In context now, I am a fan of Paradigm. ( Well, a bit pushy in the mids, but that's their market) I doubt their cost for a tweeter is more than $20. Cheap? Heck no! That would probably be a $250 retail driver if the volume was high enough. Is the Scan Speak or Focal better? Don't know. Can't afford one. I know how good my mid-line Seas are. Good enough I am looking elsewhere for the next step up.

Parts cost is one very small part of retail price. Heck, they can't even ship a speaker like that UPS, so you are talking common carrier. If you work margins back from $8000 retail to the out the door production cost, I would be surprised if it was over $200 each. I doubt a retail store could have a set on the floor if they were not looking at 100% margin. Too expensive and too low a velocity. You also need to remember, this is their flagship. They don't intend to sell many. They have to have features that make them desirable and get color glossy reviews so they can sell a ton of Monitor 9's and hope to up-sell you a Studio 60. That's how the world works my friend.

Might I offer a tip? Don't mention "spouting off" and post a link to a review in the same message. Kind of calling the kettle black if you get my meaning.

OK, you still want to build better ones? Dumptruck is giving you a hint. I think I am pretty good at it. I have a pretty good lab and have building them off and on for 35 years. I have a degree in electronics. I am not a total noob. Fool maybe, but not noob. Finally, last year did I build my first pair that my wife approves of. 6 1/2 inch Seas two ways. I will put them against what the retails stores have in the 2 to 3K range for a monitor, if I spent the time for a buffed paint job. (that ain't cheap!) Hang onto the Paradigms. Use them as a benchmark while you learn what this is all about. Maybe someday you can best them. That is the cool thing about speaker DIY, you can. I can't build a car as good as my Morgan was, let alone my GTI. Someday, I may build an amp as good as my Parasound. Naw, probably not. John is just too darn good at it. I did best my Hafler though.

[tvrgeek]

Originally Posted by Charles Darwin

When I was 16 I was lucky enough to find a shop in my neighbourhood which had Lowthers in all sorts of cabs on demo.
The hours I spend there cured me of having any interest in them for life.
Lowthers remain my benchmark for a truly terrible speaker to this day.

I think I figured out the full range attraction. People with very limited hearing. They can't hear what they are missing! Then there are some who by reading enough of their own relational, believe crossovers are evil and have convinced themselves that cone and wizzer breakup is a substitute for a real tweeter. It's a big hobby. Be happy.

[Charles Darwin]

Originally Posted by tvrgeek

I think I figured out the full range attraction. People with very limited hearing. They can't hear what they are missing! Then there are some who by reading enough of their own relational, believe crossovers are evil and have convinced themselves that cone and wizzer breakup is a substitute for a real tweeter. It's a big hobby. Be happy.

At the time I was dead set on back-loaded horns and got some Fostex FP253 which were vastly superior to the Lowthers. Especially after I added a couple of JBL 2402s and a friend bought some Coral Beta 10 for a quarter of the Lowthers cost which were also much better.

Mind we created quite a mess building 4 BLHs in my bedroom armed only with a drill, a rasp, some sandpaper and glue.
Happy days...

[mstang1988]

Originally Posted by tvrgeek

Leaning back on my old days in manufacturing....
In context now, I am a fan of Paradigm. ( Well, a bit pushy in the mids, but that's their market) I doubt their cost for a tweeter is more than $20. Cheap? Heck no! That would probably be a $250 retail driver if the volume was high enough. Is the Scan Speak or Focal better? Don't know. Can't afford one. I know how good my mid-line Seas are. Good enough I am looking elsewhere for the next step up.

Parts cost is one very small part of retail price. Heck, they can't even ship a speaker like that UPS, so you are talking common carrier. If you work margins back from $8000 retail to the out the door production cost, I would be surprised if it was over $200 each. I doubt a retail store could have a set on the floor if they were not looking at 100% margin. Too expensive and too low a velocity. You also need to remember, this is their flagship. They don't intend to sell many. They have to have features that make them desirable and get color glossy reviews so they can sell a ton of Monitor 9's and hope to up-sell you a Studio 60. That's how the world works my friend.

Might I offer a tip? Don't mention "spouting off" and post a link to a review in the same message. Kind of calling the kettle black if you get my meaning.

OK, you still want to build better ones? Dumptruck is giving you a hint. I think I am pretty good at it. I have a pretty good lab and have building them off and on for 35 years. I have a degree in electronics. I am not a total noob. Fool maybe, but not noob. Finally, last year did I build my first pair that my wife approves of. 6 1/2 inch Seas two ways. I will put them against what the retails stores have in the 2 to 3K range for a monitor, if I spent the time for a buffed paint job. (that ain't cheap!) Hang onto the Paradigms. Use them as a benchmark while you learn what this is all about. Maybe someday you can best them. That is the cool thing about speaker DIY, you can. I can't build a car as good as my Morgan was, let alone my GTI. Someday, I may build an amp as good as my Parasound. Naw, probably not. John is just too darn good at it. I did best my Hafler though.

Thanks for the advice! I didn't mean the spouting off in a bad context, just meant that it may be marketing material that I really don't know the merit of because again, I'm new to the hobby.

I'll do some reading based on dumptrucks advice, but overall it sounds like it's possible, but likely not cheap or easy. I've been doing a bit of reading today on cabinet diffraction and understanding how one can design to accommodate the phenomenon. My background is computer science with some electronics knowledge (write hardware diagnostics for a living) so math and electrical engineering I understand fairly well and wood working I do as a hobby.

Parasound amps, what model(s)? I really really wanted those JC1's at some point!

[dublin78]

Have a look at the Temperence III on this website. It is very similar to your target goal. Seems well regarded too.

Strassacker: Speaker Building, Components

Click on the quick link at the top of the screen (right hand side).

[a.wayne]

Originally Posted by Charles Darwin

When I was 16 I was lucky enough to find a shop in my neighbourhood which had Lowthers in all sorts of cabs on demo.
The hours I spend there cured me of having any interest in them for life.
Lowthers remain my benchmark for a truly terrible speaker to this day.

Rofl ....

@OP..

The Morel MDT30's are still available , this would be my choice for tweeter , IMO better than seas, which are good too , just a bit soft sounding ..

Regards

[Charles Darwin]

Is there a big (or even just meaningful) difference between the MDT30 and its 'replacement' CAT 308?

[mstang1988]

Originally Posted by dublin78

Have a look at the Temperence III on this website. It is very similar to your target goal. Seems well regarded too.

Strassacker: Speaker Building, Components

Click on the quick link at the top of the screen (right hand side).

That's an interesting speaker and might meet my needs. I'm curious if I can find a kit in the US, would need to import it, or just make it up from the listed components.

[dublin78]

The crossover and cabinet design are available on that web page by clicking on "Temperence Building Instructions". You may or may not be able to get hold of Newtonics drivers in the US.

In theorey, the European vendors should knock sales tax off thier listed prices for exports to the US. You will of course have to pay import duty at your end.