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Old 10th February 2013, 11:57 AM   #11
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My current system is with series 1st order!
It uses an old Altec woofer ----very very good
and a novel 2" mounted in a 6" waveguide for mid-tweeter duty.
L is about 2 mH and C is 12 uF

Edit: the old and famous DQ10 speakers incorporated a series crossover

Last edited by picowallspeaker; 10th February 2013 at 12:00 PM.
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Old 10th February 2013, 12:25 PM   #12
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Majerjack, I think Wolf_teeth's remarks on a resistor paralled with the tweeter are right on the money. Sometimes it is the most economical solution.

One word of caution on the use of of a parallel 1st order passive xover: without drivers mounted, it will create a dead short at the xover frequency. It can kill your amp.

As to 1st order in general, as has been remarked before, it only works with carefully selected drivers with flawless operation up to at least 2 octaves outside the xover point. And even if you would find such drivers, it will be very difficult to find a solution to compensate for the increasing beaming of the low driver, this in combination with the profound lobes you create with low order filters. This will necessitate you to work with small drivers, closely spaced with a low xover frequency, 2KHz or so. This also shows the impractability of a 1st order setup; you would need a tweeter that still does its work well at 500 Hz (2 octaves below 2KHz)
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Old 10th February 2013, 12:26 PM   #13
tvrgeek is offline tvrgeek  United States
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Gee, and I thought it was the $1 piezo tweeter that made me hate them so much!
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Old 10th February 2013, 12:31 PM   #14
tvrgeek is offline tvrgeek  United States
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vacuphile,
Or three and four way. See Vanderstein 2Ce. My next project is a 6.5 inch three way. Just finding a mid I can cross at 5K first order has been a killer. I will use the identical Seas woofer and tweeter from my last build, (LR4 acoustic @ 2.6K )
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Old 10th February 2013, 12:58 PM   #15
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Here's a pretty good thread link. However, the Acoustic Reality XO site is gone. They had some great instructions on how to empirically select the xover components.
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Old 10th February 2013, 01:08 PM   #16
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Tvrgeek, that looks like an interesting project, but if I may make some suggestions: before you make a passive filter, first do some measurements and listening tests with an active setup using something like a MiniDSP. This will show you which filter slopes and xover frequencies will work best. Don't just measure on axis, but also look at what happens off the horizontal and vertical axis. 5K from mid to tweeter is in my experience way too high, as you will note from such tests.

A very nice little speaker that would match up good with your other components is the Fountek FR88EX they have at Madisound. It is advertised as fullrange, which it is. It does have some breakup above 10KHz and ultrasonic it goes nuts, but it is a very good midrange.
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Old 10th February 2013, 02:02 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speakerdoctor View Post
Here's a pretty good thread link. However, the Acoustic Reality XO site is gone. They had some great instructions on how to empirically select the xover components.
Ooops! sorry for forgetting to paste the link prior. Here it is...

Series Crossover

The link below is to a much larger thread that basically debates the merits of series xo's. Some heavy hitters participated in this one. You should pay attention to what they wrote. Particularly JohnK....

Sreten & Speakerman go at series XOs
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Old 10th February 2013, 02:12 PM   #18
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolf_teeth View Post
I'm sorry, but this is wrong.
Wolf

Hi,

Bizarre then that you follow with an example that shows
exactly what I said, series+parallel is used in that case.

You are wrong. A parallel resistor on its own will not
attenuate a tweeter, only change the x/o point and Q.
Can help with tweeter impedance peaks sometimes.

rgds, sreten.
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Old 10th February 2013, 02:24 PM   #19
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Agree with Sreten, had overlooked this when giving blanket support to Wolf_teeth
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Old 10th February 2013, 02:27 PM   #20
system7 is offline system7  United Kingdom
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Squabbling as usual...

Back on topic. The Acoustic Reality XO from my archive, since it getting hard to find:

Click the image to open in full size.

I expect it would work best with a good flat polycone.

The gurus tend to do something more complicated. This is a Troels Gravesen design IIRC:

Click the image to open in full size.

Tony Gee did this one at Humble Homemade Hifi:

Click the image to open in full size.

Tricky things.
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