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Old 8th February 2013, 11:08 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Harleyjon View Post
If you put the Subs together, the phasing errors are gone. Therefore by definition ...
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Old 8th February 2013, 11:28 AM   #22
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Harleyjon - no, the more sources you have, the more even the response. Room modes are different depending on the lf source's location.
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Old 8th February 2013, 11:32 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by derwhalfisch View Post
Harleyjon - no, the more sources you have, the more even the response.
Not necessarily more even but the spatial variance becomes smaller hence EQ is more likely to improve a whole area and not just a single point.
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Old 8th February 2013, 12:06 PM   #24
DrDyna is online now DrDyna  United States
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Someone posted this the other day in another thread, but I found it interesting to listen to, technical issues aside. Earl Geddes talks about using multiple subs.

Earl Geddes on Multiple Subwoofers in Rooms, smwtms Captured on Ustream:Earl Geddes on Multiple Subwoofers in Small Rooms, plus a CES Report, and New Faces...
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Old 8th February 2013, 12:06 PM   #25
DrNick is offline DrNick  United Kingdom
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I'm not sure if the people decrying subs are trying to argue that big, full range stereo speakers are better, or that you don't need to reproduce low frequencies at all? I built a sealed sub (with equalisation by minidsp) because my wife and I like my simple two way main speakers, but they were clearly not able to go much below 60 Hz. I find the sub adds a lot to the warmth and body of some music, and it can be quite surprising which tracks benefit. To avoid making statements that are just my opinion and that cannot be checked by people on their own systems, I'll name specific tracks that I think sould better with my sub than without.

'Sympathy for the Devil' (the 1968 recording) by the Rolling Stones is a great example, the first third of the song is just a bass guitar, a piano, a vocal and some maracas. Playing it with a sub just adds the weight to the bass and the lower piano notes that should be there. The 'Abbey Road' album by the Beatles is recorded with a very full bass, but especially 'Come Together', which has a very heavy 'wall of sound' atmosphere. Next up, and obvious choice, 'Freak Out' by Chic has a wonderful bassline, as does 'Soul Bossa Nova' by Quincy Jones (this is the theme music from the Austin Powers movie, so you probably do know it), and it should be no surprise that these two tracks deserve to be played on something that will reproduce the lower notes properly.

A surprising one is 'In The Ghetto' by Elvis which has a very solid lower octave, and also a lot of Sinatra classics are very well recorded and have a lovely acoustic bass sound, that goes right down to the big strings.

Those who are decrying subs as only for teenagers have clearly only heard subs made for teenagers.
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Old 8th February 2013, 12:07 PM   #26
JMFahey is offline JMFahey  Argentina
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If you have a good quality Hi Fi speaker system, you don't need subwoofers.
What for?
Your regular speakers reach low enough to reproduce what's recorded.
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Old 8th February 2013, 12:09 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by JMFahey View Post
If you have a good quality Hi Fi speaker system, you don't need subwoofers.
What for?
The locations of those "built-in subs" are most likely far from optimal, resulting in a very uneven frequency response.

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Originally Posted by JMFahey View Post
Your regular speakers reach low enough to reproduce what's recorded.
"Regular" speakers do 30Hz? Very unlikely.
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Old 8th February 2013, 01:05 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by markus76 View Post
The locations of those "built-in subs" are most likely far from optimal, resulting in a very uneven frequency response.
I think this is the most important point.

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Originally Posted by markus76 View Post
"Regular" speakers do 30Hz? Very unlikely.
Sure they do, but at -10dB or lower

Last edited by ezavalla; 8th February 2013 at 01:07 PM.
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Old 8th February 2013, 01:11 PM   #29
DrNick is offline DrNick  United Kingdom
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Originally Posted by JMFahey View Post
If you have a good quality Hi Fi speaker system, you don't need subwoofers.
What for?
Your regular speakers reach low enough to reproduce what's recorded.
I'm going to get the wav files for some of the tracks I just mentioned ('Fly Me To the Moon' will be the Sinatra one) and Fourier transform them, and then we can see how much of the music is at frequencies in the range below where my regular speakers play. If you could nominate some tracks that you feel your regular speakers play perfectly, and if I have a copy, I'll run the transform on them too. Then, if you can let us know what the low frequency limit for your speakers is, we'll see if our subjective impressions match the measurements?

I'm at work now, but will do this when I get home tonight.
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Old 8th February 2013, 01:29 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by dumptruck View Post
To provide some context here, the OP has another active thread asking for help with room mode problems where lots of people are suggesting distributed subwoofers to stop that. Murillollirum, it seems strange to say that they "give me a good bass" when you've already told us that you have a bass problem.
hi dumptruck, when I started the thread I tohught the my "bass problem"was with my speakers, but as I learned from you and other gurus I discovered the the room modes were the mais issue. thx
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