Subwoofers: are they really necessary for home audio? - Page 19 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Multi-Way

Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12th February 2013, 10:20 PM   #181
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
markus76 - i agree with you dude, I call Whitney Houston's music 'nursery rhymes' (tho i respect her skill) and Aphex Twin is music. This thread is suffering from a classic DIYA case of engineers vs religious adherence to preconceptions and tradition.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th February 2013, 10:23 PM   #182
tvrgeek is offline tvrgeek  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Md
Quote:
Originally Posted by kouiky View Post
Some of my classical music and other sources contains information in the 10 Hz regions. Do I feel we need a subwoofer, no necessarily if the main channels extend into the lower regions.
I have to believe that is distortion, special effects, or you are doing research on elephant language. ( they do communicate in subsonics) Below 20 Hz is called SUBSONIC for a reason.

For a full experience of pipe organ, then you do need to get to the lower 30's. For artificial music and special effects, maybe mid 20's. Below that is distortion, so I have to call you out on that 10 Hz for "classical" I would agree, if the mains could produce the lowest register, great. Few can. Besides, when I tweak an amp, I am setting the network in the feedback to NOT produce amplification at 10Hz. Way too close to the servo that may be running at 5 Hz. and it won't get bast my input DC blocking caps anyway.

Just my two cents, but I have come to the conclusion all this jabber about sub 30 Hz is about bragging rights, (at best) not people who actually listen. I believed the 20 to 20 when I was still 20. Now I FILTER at 25Hz. Makes for lower distortion and quicker pulse decay. That is also why I like sealed subs. I am also looking at filtering at 19 or 20K as I have a theory about harmonic distortion exciting tweeter breakup which in turn causes IM at audible frequencies.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th February 2013, 10:33 PM   #183
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Switzerland
Quote:
Originally Posted by tvrgeek View Post
Just my two cents, but I have come to the conclusion all this jabber about sub 30 Hz is about bragging rights, (at best) not people who actually listen.
Then your conslusion is certainly not based on facts. I do listen, a lot. That's why I know that there's a profound difference betwenn flat to 30Hz and flat to 20Hz.

Here's a thread for you The New Master List of BASS in Movies with Frequency Charts
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th February 2013, 10:48 PM   #184
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus76 View Post
Then your conslusion is certainly not based on facts. I do listen, a lot. That's why I know that there's a profound difference betwenn flat to 30Hz and flat to 20Hz.

Here's a thread for you The New Master List of BASS in Movies with Frequency Charts
+1.
I do live sound and recording for a living (if you could call it that ) and use PA cabinets that make it flat to around 35 Hz (HP at 30 Hz), and I frequently hear much lower musical response with my home stereo and studio control room sub which make it to 20 Hz.

At my stage in the age game, I can hear 15 Hz at a much, much lower SPL level than 15,000 Hz.

If anyone thinks that is bragging, believe me, I wish it were the other way around .

Art
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th February 2013, 11:05 PM   #185
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Brasil
I have a book of Mr. Floyd E. Toole called sound reproduction, and there is a chapter called (Delivering good bass in small rooms) wich I will resume for you in some declaration and observations.

1. The use of multiple subwoofers to manipulate sound fields, controlling the energy delivered to room modes is a recent develpment and the results of this approach are very good.
2. In stereo, it was common to think of a sweet spot, and make all arrangments to have this optimum single listener.
3. However, the existence of standing waves among the roo mensures that other seats experience difference bass.
4. To deliver a good bass to several listeners, the room resonances must be physically manipulated.
5. Acoustic: attacks the problem with absortion
6. Absortion is Always a good idea but it’s difficult.
7. The absortion material has to be placed away from the room boundaries ato ne-quarter the wavelenght (30Hz 2.9meters!)
8. at the corners “bass traps”do not work because there is located the max sound pressure, not particle velocity.
9. There are two ways to vary the amount of energy transfered from loudspeakers tom odes:
a. Locate the subwoofer near a pressure minimum in the offending standing wave
b. Use 2 or more subs to drive the standing waves constructively or destructively. 2 subwoofers connected in parallel, one in each side of a null will destructively drive the mode; positioned two nulls apart, the same subs will amplify the mode
10. The improvement of seat-to-seat bass variations of using multiple subwoofers is vey small when using more than 4.(this was tested buy a Harman guy, using from 1 to 5000 subs in a room)
11. The best subs position using two is one at the middle of the front wall and the other in the opposite back wall; using 4 is one at each corner, or one at the middle of each wall
12. Two midwall subs Works as well as four subs

That’s it.
Now let's hear the GURUS.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th February 2013, 11:09 PM   #186
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus76 View Post
Aphex Twin "Logan Rock Witch":

Click the image to open in full size.
This is nothing when you compare it to a movie track like The Haunted(awful movie great soundtrack). It has deep intense bass down to 5hz.
__________________
Soundtrackmixer - M.P.S.E/AES/SMPTE member
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th February 2013, 11:09 PM   #187
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by murillollirum View Post
10. The improvement of seat-to-seat bass variations of using multiple subwoofers is vey small when using more than 4.(this was tested buy a Harman guy, using from 1 to 5000 subs in a room)
That would require either a very large room, or very small "subs" .
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th February 2013, 11:17 PM   #188
Speakerholic
diyAudio Moderator
 
Cal Weldon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Near Vancouver
I'm not sure the title of this thread is a good one. It seems to invoke a divide among those who otherwise might agree.

Is it necessary? - Of course not, I have been listening to 3-5" drivers on back loaded spiral horns and been having a really great time doing it. Many of you know me as a large speaker person so how is that possible?

Is it desirable? - In many situations, of course it is. You want to cover as much of the spectrum as possible don't you?

I can't see where this is going to be an educational thread and 188 posts into it bear out my thoughts.

In the meantime, enjoy yourselves.
__________________
Next stop: Margaritaville
Some of Cal's stuff | Cal Weldon Consulting
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th February 2013, 11:22 PM   #189
Account disabled at member's request
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Somewhere in Quebec
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus76 View Post
Aphex Twin "Logan Rock Witch":

Click the image to open in full size.
ouch! lol, you dissed me!
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th February 2013, 11:46 PM   #190
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Brasil
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal Weldon View Post
I'm not sure the title of this thread is a good one. It seems to invoke a divide among those who otherwise might agree.

Is it necessary? - Of course not, I have been listening to 3-5" drivers on back loaded spiral horns and been having a really great time doing it. Many of you know me as a large speaker person so how is that possible?

Is it desirable? - In many situations, of course it is. You want to cover as much of the spectrum as possible don't you?

I can't see where this is going to be an educational thread and 188 posts into it bear out my thoughts.

In the meantime, enjoy yourselves.
dear Cal, when I opened this thread it was not my intention to invoke disagreement between people. I think everyone has a different approach to the matter, but hey man, this is a democracy, everyone has the right to tell anything they want... I just agree with you that some guys are going too much 'sensitive' about their truths. I think we all are at the same search: for a always better sound reproduction. Let's just relax a little guys and respect each other opinions without satiric notes
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
I have 2 Boston G5 Car Audio Subwoofers (sound quality type) For home use? ta_nhra02 Subwoofers 5 20th January 2010 06:20 AM
Questions for DIY home Subwoofers SunnYii Subwoofers 10 24th May 2007 12:26 AM
Jack Hammer subwoofers for High-end home audio? cemmany Multi-Way 16 5th April 2006 12:15 PM
Autosound subwoofers in a Home Theater environment The Paulinator Multi-Way 1 27th June 2003 04:44 AM
Home cinema front speakers/subwoofers mcai7et2 Multi-Way 0 31st January 2003 11:53 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 09:44 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2