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Old 8th February 2013, 08:40 AM   #21
yov is offline yov  France
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I'm listening to my current speakers and I'm thinking that the positioning of the speaker in the room is crucial !
When I'm sitting in front, I get all the front wave in the face, the sound is really good.
When I'm at a 30° angle, already the sound is different. Less high frequencies...

In fact I think it's important not to have the two stereo speakers parallel.

For my new project I will position the speakers not in the corner of a room. I will have a 30° angle between their front axis. I will put the tweeters much higher than in my current setup. Probably at standing level, about 1m50 from the floor.
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Old 8th February 2013, 03:36 PM   #22
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Location: Savoie - France
By the way, do you already own those speakers (D300P04, 16GKLV6M, TW025A28) because I own a similar concept :

System Pictures & Description

One idea could be re-using the medium crossover section from the MV15 kit. Crossover who has certainly been designed by Mr Visan.

For the tweeter section, you could start with a text book 18db/octave filter at 3500 hz with a LPAD of ~3 db.

Of course go for sealed enclosure for the medium, ~13 l was used in the MV15 kit.

Concerning the woofer section, you may have a look at the 12BR70 wich has 3 more dB of sensitivity.

You will find in attachment the measure on axis of the low pass section of the Davis 16 (0.56 mH + 4.7 mF). It's about 4.5 Khz, and should be more near 3.5 kHz of axis.
Attached Images
File Type: png 16gklv6mbw12.png (36.4 KB, 256 views)

Last edited by Pascal GUERIN; 8th February 2013 at 03:46 PM.
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Old 8th February 2013, 04:15 PM   #23
yov is offline yov  France
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pascal GUERIN View Post
By the way, do you already own those speakers (D300P04, 16GKLV6M, TW025A28) because I own a similar concept :

System Pictures & Description
It's beautiful !!!
The paint work is excellent ! Did you do the white ones ?
How does it sound like ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pascal GUERIN View Post

One idea could be re-using the medium crossover section from the MV15 kit. Crossover who has certainly been designed by Mr Visan.
I want to create something new, not make a cheap copy !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pascal GUERIN View Post

For the tweeter section, you could start with a text book 18db/octave filter at 3500 hz with a LPAD of ~3 db.
Why 18db/Octave ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pascal GUERIN View Post
Of course go for sealed enclosure for the medium, ~13 l was used in the MV15 kit.
No. I will lose everything below 200 Hz.
Remember, my cutoff is a first order only...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pascal GUERIN View Post
Concerning the woofer section, you may have a look at the 12BR70 wich has 3 more dB of sensitivity.
Beyma is not a French brand. The spirit of my project is to have only French drivers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pascal GUERIN View Post
You will find in attachment the measure on axis of the low pass section of the Davis 16 (0.56 mH + 4.7 mF). It's about 4.5 Khz, and should be more near 3.5 kHz of axis.
Thank you very much, this is very helpful .
I thinjk that a high cutoff at 3.5 kHz is the maximum for this driver !
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Old 8th February 2013, 05:15 PM   #24
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Hi Yov,

You are on the right track with your project, but if I was to use the drivers you mentioned I would definitly consider LR2 filters.

If you want to look at the off-axis performance of your design try simming it with Boxsim (it's German sorry ) Boxsim - Homepage there is an English version available for download.

And if you really dislike the power loss in the x-over you can always go active..
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Old 8th February 2013, 05:29 PM   #25
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> For the tweeter section, you could start with a text book 18db/octave
> filter at 3500 hz with a LPAD of ~3 db.
> Why 18db/Octave ?

Because an electrical 2nd order filter with 0.56mH and 4.7 mF applied to the 16 Davis produce a 3rd accoustical order.
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Old 9th February 2013, 04:56 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pascal GUERIN View Post
A short description of my system (almost finished) using french brands of loudspeaker : Bass is Atohm D300P04, medium is Davis 16GKLV6M, Tweeter is Audax TW034. Passive crossover with 16GKLV6M/TW034 and active crossover between D300P04 and 16GKLV6M/TW034 via a miniDSP 2x4. Bass is powered with two Hypex 2.0 modules and the medium-tweeter section with a Poppulse T150.
This is my firts multi-amp system and also my first three way system ! What a big sound with all this, "live sound" at home
"I beg your pardon", "pardon Monsieur!" I just brought your post from the other tread you linked above. Question: Is this stone for a 4-way?! They look really good anyway, should I say... French?
Here another interesting project, a 3-way - CYCLOP à la Focal (SEAS) by Troels Gravesen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by yov View Post
Beyma is not a French brand. The spirit of my project is to have only French drivers.
No pun intended but maybe the JLA use of Spanish Beyma T2030 will affect international relations.
6moons audio reviews: JLA Acoustique Perspective 2 Signature + Stand 80

Definitely agree with you. French engineering is a must in this case. Salut!
Atohm, Audax, Focal, Supravox, Phy-HP, Fertin, PHL Audio and more.

Ou comme M. Petoin Dominique le dirais,
Quote:
Les Chinois ne payeront jamais nos retraites, les Américains non plus : Achetons les produits de notre pays lorsque c'est possible.
Pour un achat dans notre pays, une marque étrangère avec les produits fabriqués dans notre pays est préférable à une marque de notre pays avec les produits fabriqués à l'étranger.
L'idéal est que la marque de notre pays continue de fabriquer dans notre pays.
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Old 9th February 2013, 06:42 AM   #27
yov is offline yov  France
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pascal GUERIN View Post
> For the tweeter section, you could start with a text book 18db/octave
> filter at 3500 hz with a LPAD of ~3 db.
> Why 18db/Octave ?

Because an electrical 2nd order filter with 0.56mH and 4.7 mF applied to the 16 Davis produce a 3rd accoustical order.
Oops, didn't think about that !
The filter order must be combined to the driver's response to obtain the acoustical order.
BUT, in my case, I have chosen drivers frequency response that overlap a lot.
The Mid goes up to 5000-6000, while the tweeter goes down to 1000. So If I take 4000 as a cutoff for my filter, I'm far away from both drivers cutoff and no need to take into account the driver response slope
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Old 9th February 2013, 06:55 AM   #28
yov is offline yov  France
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark.Clappers View Post
Hi Yov,

You are on the right track with your project, but if I was to use the drivers you mentioned I would definitly consider LR2 filters.

If you want to look at the off-axis performance of your design try simming it with Boxsim (it's German sorry ) Boxsim - Homepage there is an English version available for download.

And if you really dislike the power loss in the x-over you can always go active..
Thanks, I will try this software !
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Old 9th February 2013, 07:14 AM   #29
yov is offline yov  France
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inductor View Post
"I beg your pardon", "pardon Monsieur!" I just brought your post from the other tread you linked above. Question: Is this stone for a 4-way?! They look really good anyway, should I say... French?
Here another interesting project, a 3-way - CYCLOP à la Focal (SEAS) by Troels Gravesen.

No pun intended but maybe the JLA use of Spanish Beyma T2030 will affect international relations.
6moons audio reviews: JLA Acoustique Perspective 2 Signature + Stand 80

Definitely agree with you. French engineering is a must in this case. Salut!
Atohm, Audax, Focal, Supravox, Phy-HP, Fertin, PHL Audio and more.

Ou comme M. Petoin Dominique le dirais,
I didn't know that M.Petoin was known in the English speaking world!
One of the things for which I used his knowledge is the aspect ratio of the chambers.
He says that 1 - 1.2 - 1.44 is very good.
Proportions des enceintes
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Old 9th February 2013, 07:19 AM   #30
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@inductor
Quote:
Question: Is this stone for a 4-way?!
Yes, comming from a torrent of Chamonix

@Yov
Quote:
The Mid goes up to 5000-6000, while the tweeter goes down to 1000. So If I take 4000 as a cutoff for my filter, I'm far away from both drivers cutoff and no need to take into account the driver response slope
If you inport the Davis 16 .frd and .zma files from part express in a simulation tool, you will see that this assertion is wrong.
It takes 10 minutes to do this with PCD.

By the way the D300P04 is made in PRC ...
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 16gklv6MPart-Express.pdf (9.8 KB, 16 views)

Last edited by Pascal GUERIN; 9th February 2013 at 07:26 AM.
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