SIMPLE QUESTION: Can a 10" woofer give me the same bass of a 15" one? - Page 4 - diyAudio
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Old 3rd February 2013, 09:16 AM   #31
balerit is offline balerit  South Africa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMFahey View Post

Back to the speaker choice, *if* you are limited by size (as in designing a speaker system for a typical Living Room) a 10" speaker can easily outperform a 15" speaker, hands down.
I'll take you up on that, try beat these, they'll blow your back wall out if they're not brick and mortar

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Old 3rd February 2013, 01:55 PM   #32
JMFahey is offline JMFahey  Argentina
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EDIT: I was answering to tinnitus
Quote:
ok, lets take a normal 88db 10" bass/sub woofer
post.
Agree and add:
Quote:
ok, lets take a normal 88db 10" bass/sub woofer
put in in a closed box where it rolls off at 35hz, giving -6db at 30hz

then put a 96db 15" in a closed box where it rolls off at 50hz, giving -12db at 40hz
Well, that's cheating, because the box which will allow the 15" speaker do so, will be, say, 20X the volume of the other one, so, the example is not valid.
Quote:
so if you remove anything above 50hz, SPL at low frequencies could be equal for both woofers, in theory
will it happen that way in reality ? .......don't know
Well, I know, because I have tested *many* speaker/cabinet combinations; I commercially make Bass amps and cabinets so for me it's a very real problem to solve.
Back to the question: "if you remove" ... (you'd need a steep and expensive crossover for that) they may *measure* the same SPL with a sinewave, but won't sound the same with any program you send there.
Basically the 15" in a too small cabinet will sound "dry" while the 10" in a cabinet where it feels comfortable will sound "smooth".
Hope the words explain the sound.

Quote:
but man, when I look at a hifi woofer, and visually compare it to a PRO woofer, many hifi woofers look like crap
That's a personal visual preference, can't argue about that, I often see it the other way.
But anyway "listening with your eyes" is for noobs and the untrained, isn't it?

EDIT: now answering to balerit bragging
Quote:
try beat these, they'll blow your back wall out if they're not brick and mortar
Well, if the objective is blowing brick and mortar (which they really aren't capable of doing, of course) yes, I agree they will achieve a higher SPL.
As of the sound, it will be incredibly uneven, with a strong 200Hz bump, no real deep bass, honking shrill treble and no real high end either.
Typical "horn sound".
Mind you, I respect Altec Lansing A7, have built a ton of them (long ago), and they were state of the art ... in 1935 .
I *have* mixed records in Pro Studios which used them as monitors, in the late 60's.
By '75 nobody used them any more.
Maybe there was some reason for that

Since you seem to be a Horn man (fine with me) I suggest you add some good bullet tweeters to hear something above 10 KHz, and a couple man sized Bass horns (starting about 8X the cabinet volume you have now) to have something below 100 Hz.

Personally I'll keep my Hi Fi type all-cone speaker (ok, it includes a silk dome tweeter).

Altec Lansing A7 were needed when you had to fill a 1600 seat Cinema Theater with a 30W tube amplifier; nowadays SS watts are cheap and plentiful.

PS: congratulations, beautiful cabinet work.

Last edited by JMFahey; 3rd February 2013 at 02:17 PM.
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Old 3rd February 2013, 02:14 PM   #33
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by balerit View Post
I'll take you up on that, try beat these, they'll blow your back wall out if they're not brick and mortar

Click the image to open in full size.
Lol, or blow out your backwall if it's made from tar and paper ....
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Old 3rd February 2013, 02:16 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMFahey View Post
Ugh !! Like covering a steak with crushed Oreos and sprinkling vanilla over it.

Marinate your lamb overnight in *dry red* wine and spices before cooking and *then* maybe we'll agree.

Back to the speaker choice, *if* you are limited by size (as in designing a speaker system for a typical Living Room) a 10" speaker can easily outperform a 15" speaker, hands down.
As in way flatter response, deeper bass, smooth sound, and so on.
It will need more driving power, of course, piece of cake.

Now, if we talk live sound, such as Band PA or DJ stuff , and have no size/weight/power limitations and want highest SPL, yes, 15" are preferred over 10".

But to make a choice, the OP question must be rephrased in more precise terms.
As is, it's too vague.
Dear Hermano, if you someday come to Fortaleza, Brasil, I will go with you to show you how delicious is this lamb It a young lamb, here we call `cordeiro mamão` so the meat is very soft.
By the way, I love Buenos Aires, there I eaten the best Bife Chorizo in my holy life at "El Cabrera"!!! I pretend to go back when there is a good musical show, like U2 or other rock band, if you should know some concert please let me know.

Gracias.
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Old 3rd February 2013, 03:08 PM   #35
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMFahey View Post
EDIT: I was answering to tinnitus
post.
Agree and add:

Well, that's cheating, because the box which will allow the 15" speaker do so, will be, say, 20X the volume of the other one, so, the example is not valid.
isn't that a bit over the top ? ...2x volume would do it, and be quite fair I would say

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMFahey View Post
Back to the question: "if you remove" ... (you'd need a steep and expensive crossover for that).....
one more .... I will have to choose my words more carefully in the future ...I would never use higher than 24db for a sub filter

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMFahey View Post
But anyway "listening with your eyes" is for noobs and the untrained, isn't it?
I hope this don't mean you take me for an idiot ....
no, I really think quality hifi drivers are overpriced
and technology is...just average, mostly
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Old 3rd February 2013, 03:27 PM   #36
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Balerit,

I love em too.

I have a pair of A7-500, 416's and 511's That I bought back in 1970 and they are waiting for a new cabinet. I have a picture of the originals somewhere.
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Old 3rd February 2013, 04:32 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by murillollirum View Post
5) so with a quality 15 inch, a good enclosure and a good power, there is no way a 10 inch can beat.
Try to beat this 10" and don't ask silly questions. (And) Prove it!
Note: this in someway relates to "what's the best loudspeaker driver" question that many ask... good question, there's always a better one/application.

Last edited by Inductor; 3rd February 2013 at 04:45 PM.
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Old 3rd February 2013, 04:39 PM   #38
JMFahey is offline JMFahey  Argentina
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Quote:
isn't that a bit over the top ? ...2x volume would do it, and be quite fair I would say
Just do the Math, it will clear many doubts.
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Old 3rd February 2013, 04:40 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by balerit View Post
try beat these
OK, nice satellites, but why no pictures of the woofers?
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Old 3rd February 2013, 04:41 PM   #40
JMFahey is offline JMFahey  Argentina
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murillollirum View Post
Dear Hermano, if you someday come to Fortaleza, Brasil, I will go with you to show you how delicious is this lamb It a young lamb, here we call `cordeiro mamão` so the meat is very soft.
By the way, I love Buenos Aires, there I eaten the best Bife Chorizo in my holy life at "El Cabrera"!!! I pretend to go back when there is a good musical show, like U2 or other rock band, if you should know some concert please let me know.

Gracias.
Thanks, I'll remember your invitation.
Obrigado, vou lembrar seu convite
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