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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 1st February 2013, 07:31 PM   #11
Stevenn is offline Stevenn  Australia
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Hi Wintermute
Now I understand, closed drivers. No, they originally had normal drivers.

You may be right, DME Hi Fi sounds very familiar. I think they had some electric guitars in window as well....

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Old 1st February 2013, 09:19 PM   #12
tvrgeek is offline tvrgeek  United States
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Open eh? Well, we know better now. Isolate the mid.
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Old 1st February 2013, 09:37 PM   #13
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I take it the boxes are either sealed, or vented, I know some much older speakers used to have perforated backs on the boxes so they effectively were open back. If that were the case there would be less of a problem not having the mids in the same enclosure.

Something like this (depending on what volume the mid needs) can be an easy option (note I haven't ever used one of these so don't know how well they work in practice). Midrange Enclosure 0.8 litre

My 5" drivers need a volume of about 5L so it is very driver specific.

Tony.
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Old 1st February 2013, 10:12 PM   #14
tvrgeek is offline tvrgeek  United States
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Most mids will get crossed over so far above their resonance, they become very tolerant of the enclosure. Where the mids I am looking at might model at 3 L to give me 110 Hz, I am going to cross over at 500, so they need something just big enough to clear them, stuffed well of course. I like really solid isolation, like 80mm MDF. The old Ditton 44 had a nifty trick. It used a heavy cardboard tube glued front to back, so it was both the mid chamber and the primary cabinet brace.

Most tweets are sealed, but the SB29 tweeter has a flimsy plastic back chamber that seems to actually be part of the damping. So if I were to use one of these, I would put it in a chamber. I won't as the CSD plots tell me these things just don't know when to stop flopping the breeze.
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Old 2nd February 2013, 04:33 AM   #15
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And some midrangers are very tolerant of box size and shape and can be used with too big boxes if the crossovers takes most off the bass away
Cheap Sony woofer fits a Milo tin perfectly
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Old 2nd February 2013, 04:37 AM   #16
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Steven I have found most closed back drivers need to be crossed over much higher than an open back midrange, some of those early Closed back drivers were more like a low tweeter than a true midrange
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Old 2nd February 2013, 05:47 AM   #17
Stevenn is offline Stevenn  Australia
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Thanks yr replies.
I may have been a bit hasty in declaring the mid driver as 'normal'. In looking more closely at it and links provided by Tony, the mid driver appears to have a metal sealed back... See photo attached.

This may explain design of speaker.

Either way, way to go now appears to be to construct separate compartment for new Peerless mid 4in (5.0 l according to WIN Isd) and find an 8 in driver best suited for a small cabinet approx 45 litres.

Of course this ignores existing cross overs and whether they are any good for new drivers, but one step at a time!

Anyone recommend any suitable 8 in woofers? I see Peerless and Scan speak do woofers with low Fs anywhere from $250 -$350 AUD; for that I might be better off with new speakers!
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Old 2nd February 2013, 06:54 AM   #18
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You could do a lot worse than these http://www.wescomponents.com/datashe...23NRXS45-8.pdf

I've been working with some 4" SB drivers and I'm very impressed with them!

The 8" linked above models very well in 45L sealed enclosure (with heavy fill). F3 around 43Hz F10 around 25Hz.

linear travel runs out at about 10W but I think it should be fine up to probably as much as 50W.

Note sure of the retail price of them but suspect that they would be somewhere around the $100 mark each.

Wagner are in Ashfield.

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Old 2nd February 2013, 09:21 AM   #19
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Scrap the above. I thought that the modeling seemed very good for a 8"! My unibox still had 2 ohms of series resistance from when I was playing around on a previous incarnation.... After changing to 0.2 ohms it's not quite so fantastic but still respectable. However recommended box size is only 35L.

vented at 45L with this driver might be an option too.

Tony.
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File Type: gif VB Response SB23NRXS45-8.gif (30.8 KB, 22 views)
File Type: gif vented_vs_closed.gif (24.6 KB, 22 views)
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Last edited by wintermute; 2nd February 2013 at 09:34 AM. Reason: Add attachment.
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Old 2nd February 2013, 10:25 AM   #20
Stevenn is offline Stevenn  Australia
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Thanks Tony
Got similar values with WIN Isd.
I assume mid compartment doesn't have to be 5 l, it can be larger - formulas give minimums?
I have account with WES.

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