I would like some recommendations from experienced Horn/waveguid/compressiondriver users. I have a 400Hz Tractrix horn today, with B&C DE25-8 driver. i would like some more dispersion and natural highfrequences.
I have been looking at the polish AutoTech horns, there is many types, OSWG, LeClearch variations, Iwata variations. I am confused whitch is best for me.
Can you, tell me what are the advantages and disadvantages of each type.
Have some one heard these types of horns, and how do they sound?
I know it is a lot to ask for, but a short answer will be appreciated a lot. Thanks!
I have been looking at the polish AutoTech horns, there is many types, OSWG, LeClearch variations, Iwata variations. I am confused whitch is best for me.
Can you, tell me what are the advantages and disadvantages of each type.
Have some one heard these types of horns, and how do they sound?
I know it is a lot to ask for, but a short answer will be appreciated a lot. Thanks!
It is a lot to ask for. Really, you just need to take the time to read the threads discussing these horn types, one post won't cover it, and it's not reasonable to expect someone to spend hours pulling this together for you. From my perspective, the OSWG/constant directivity design school is where it's at.
TAD
If you use a beryllium diaphragm drivers, such as the TAD TD2001 or TD2002 [1] in the horns you have, that may be a sufficient measure to meet your HF response objective. If you find that the horn dispersion remains narrow then replace the horns. I prefer the sectorial horns made from wood, example of which is included in the reference [2].
Regards,
WHG
[1] TAD Compression Drivers
High Frequency Driver?TAD
[2] Yuichi’s Audio Lab
Yuichi's Audio Lab.
If you use a beryllium diaphragm drivers, such as the TAD TD2001 or TD2002 [1] in the horns you have, that may be a sufficient measure to meet your HF response objective. If you find that the horn dispersion remains narrow then replace the horns. I prefer the sectorial horns made from wood, example of which is included in the reference [2].
Regards,
WHG
[1] TAD Compression Drivers
High Frequency Driver?TAD
[2] Yuichi’s Audio Lab
Yuichi's Audio Lab.
I can only comment on my plywood conicals that I had JBL2435Be's on VS the Cube Audio (also from Poland) 600Hz horn (Tractrix).
I had evolved the 21mm birch plywood conical with a rounded mouth termination that improved things over the straight ended.
The cube audio horn is small - I run it from 1.25KHz and up and it fitted physically into my 5 way stack better. It also sounded slightly more dynamic and natural.
I have tried my Vitavox S2 on the 600Hz horn also. I need the pair (my other S2 is in for service) to properly develop and evaluate.
So that is a very little bit. Getting the right sized horns for the freq is first rule.
Tractrix vs Le cleach. Well in a 5 way (4 upper horns in a stack) Le cleach on all but the smallest horn is out of the question... Unless you have palace high ceilings and can sit a very long way away.
My take on it is that Le Cleach horns can run wider frequency ranges so you could try to do a 3 way or 4 way with more success than with say tractrix. If running a 3 way / 4 way or 5 way is the best I won't discuss here. Depends on horns, drivers etc etc etc.
Me I have a 5 way...
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mult...-tapped-bass-mids-tweeter-big-boy-system.html
I had evolved the 21mm birch plywood conical with a rounded mouth termination that improved things over the straight ended.
The cube audio horn is small - I run it from 1.25KHz and up and it fitted physically into my 5 way stack better. It also sounded slightly more dynamic and natural.
I have tried my Vitavox S2 on the 600Hz horn also. I need the pair (my other S2 is in for service) to properly develop and evaluate.
So that is a very little bit. Getting the right sized horns for the freq is first rule.
Tractrix vs Le cleach. Well in a 5 way (4 upper horns in a stack) Le cleach on all but the smallest horn is out of the question... Unless you have palace high ceilings and can sit a very long way away.
My take on it is that Le Cleach horns can run wider frequency ranges so you could try to do a 3 way or 4 way with more success than with say tractrix. If running a 3 way / 4 way or 5 way is the best I won't discuss here. Depends on horns, drivers etc etc etc.
Me I have a 5 way...
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mult...-tapped-bass-mids-tweeter-big-boy-system.html
I have made both a wooden radial 400hz tractrix horn, wooden 400hz round tractrix horn and a 35cm diameter wooden 90 degree OSWG.
If you are willing to spend the time to adjust your crossover for the OSWG, then you get the most natural sound from that horn in my opinion.
But you can't just switch horns and keep the same crossover, and the OSWG should usually be crossed over higher than the tractrix horn.
Regards
Kim
Hi Kim.
My Horn setup works frequency wise fantastic, but around 7-7,5KHz The compressiondriver sounds harsh, as we all know too well for PA/Concerts, I have thyed a lot, but It wouldt go away.
I Dont have much experinve with compressiondrivers, but they are build very alike, so I tend to think they also sounds alike?
The B&C compressiondriver have a fairly good reputation I belive.
My thoughts now, are that it is by fare not optimally to let a dome blay though som small channels, that is basicly what a compressiondriver are. It must give strong resonances. Compare it with a lot of small basreflex channels sound is played though....
My Horn setup works frequency wise fantastic, but around 7-7,5KHz The compressiondriver sounds harsh, as we all know too well for PA/Concerts, I have thyed a lot, but It wouldt go away.
I Dont have much experinve with compressiondrivers, but they are build very alike, so I tend to think they also sounds alike?
The B&C compressiondriver have a fairly good reputation I belive.
My thoughts now, are that it is by fare not optimally to let a dome blay though som small channels, that is basicly what a compressiondriver are. It must give strong resonances. Compare it with a lot of small basreflex channels sound is played though....
I think that's the older version of the 250 driver and i agree they sound harsh and unnatural if they sound like the 250. Your horn is fine, either get a real tweeter like Ciare 1.38 or B&C De35 and crossover arpund 5k like I already recommended or upgrade the driver to something like a Celestion with an aluminum dome.
You'll likely get many contradictory answers...
...based on different individual experiences, priorities, goals, and preferences.
FWIW, my own preference is for a relatively conventional radial horn with exponential or hypex profile, carved out of dense wood (a-la Yuichi's: ƒz�[ƒ“ƒXƒs�[ƒJ�[).
Ensuring a smooth transition in between the driver's exit and the horn's throat is also important.
I also prefer NOT to let the compression driver handle all of the medium-high spectrum, but use a separate (super)-tweeter for frequencies > 7kHz approx.
But, YMMV - there's no substitute for direct experience and at least some hard-earned theoretical insight, if you want to make informed decisions.
Marco
...based on different individual experiences, priorities, goals, and preferences.
FWIW, my own preference is for a relatively conventional radial horn with exponential or hypex profile, carved out of dense wood (a-la Yuichi's: ƒz�[ƒ“ƒXƒs�[ƒJ�[).
Ensuring a smooth transition in between the driver's exit and the horn's throat is also important.
I also prefer NOT to let the compression driver handle all of the medium-high spectrum, but use a separate (super)-tweeter for frequencies > 7kHz approx.
But, YMMV - there's no substitute for direct experience and at least some hard-earned theoretical insight, if you want to make informed decisions.
Marco
Equalized for the same response, on the same horn, compression drivers sound quite similar.
Each horn design has positive and negative attributes, and some will interpret a negative as positive and vise-versa.
The "harsh" sound you are experiencing in the 7.5 kHz range is probably a product of the peaking response in the long, narrow expansion in the horn you are using, not the driver.
The peaking problem is most present on axis due to the narrow HF dispersion.
A constant directivity conical or OS type of horn would not have the same problem, but would require equalization to be flat on axis, the HF will fall off above around 2.5 Khz (or so) and seem "dull" by comparison.
Once equalized, you could enjoy even HF response over a much larger listening area than you presently have.
That said, you have not stated how low you are crossing over, expecting much more than a decade of clean response from a horn is pushing it, and conical horns (unless quite narrow) will not go as low as your present horns.
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Thank you for all you good informations. I have been tempted to try a OSwg but have hesitated, because I am afraight I will experince the same problems.
I am crossing over to an 8" woofer, at 1500Hz. That means I am attenuating the driver/horn a lot! And I experince when I ad very much damping with resistors then the HF is dropping very very much. I bridge the resistor with a capacitor, and the frequence responce looks fine again, (actually It meassures very linear!) but I feel it is wrong, It is a problem.
I am crossing over to an 8" woofer, at 1500Hz. That means I am attenuating the driver/horn a lot! And I experince when I ad very much damping with resistors then the HF is dropping very very much. I bridge the resistor with a capacitor, and the frequence responce looks fine again, (actually It meassures very linear!) but I feel it is wrong, It is a problem.
It is in my experience. Most compression drivers are in break up distortion mode right where I see people "eq" them! They attenuate the low distortion piston range and leave the nasty part raw and listen to the spitty treble. That's why i use tweeters and basically can't stand the sound of "eq'd" horns. Never thought it was a good idea and every time I do it it comes out rather quickly.
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