Ok, so I must preface this by stating that the "heard, but not seen" adage definitely applies here. Wife just decided to add a tv to the main entertainment area in our house. It's a large (20x35ft) room with high, vaulted ceilings. Seating position is about 13ft from the tv and the tv is on one of the long walls of the room. Use will primarily be tv and movies (but we already have a theater in the basement). Speakers will be powered by a marantz nr1603.
The main constraints are created by the tv stand (pics to follow). From what i can think of, It essentially requires a low-profile center channel to be housed either above or below the tv. I was tentatively planning this design for the center channel and something similar mounted in the wall on either side of the stand for a 3.0 system.
I'm definitely open to suggestions, help, & critique!
Thanks,
-john
The main constraints are created by the tv stand (pics to follow). From what i can think of, It essentially requires a low-profile center channel to be housed either above or below the tv. I was tentatively planning this design for the center channel and something similar mounted in the wall on either side of the stand for a 3.0 system.
I'm definitely open to suggestions, help, & critique!
Thanks,
-john
I quite like the look of these - Speaker Design Works
You may recognize the drivers here: Click
IIRC someone used one as a centre channel speaker.
Troels has a good very selection of diy speaker designs to suite all budgets.
You may recognize the drivers here: Click
IIRC someone used one as a centre channel speaker.
Troels has a good very selection of diy speaker designs to suite all budgets.
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A couple pictures of the room...
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Think about on-wall panels.
You can get some ideas from Artcoustic:
Design high-end wall Loudspeakers and Subwoofers by Artcoustic
I had thought about on-wall vs. in-wall and didn't think it would be a viable option due to looks, but I'm beginning to come around. Any idea what they use as the "oversized baffles"?
The little Magnepans might look good in there if you need something that's not a box, but they're a little anemic without a sub.
Maybe something like this: Dayton Audio ES80W 8" 2-Way In-Wall Speaker Pair 300-372
Edit: The design using the markaudio drivers is kinda cool, but again, as stated by the designer of the markaudio drivers, "They are not woofers." They're not really designed to play much below 50-60 cycles with any amount of authority and asking them to play loud is probably not a good idea.
Maybe something like this: Dayton Audio ES80W 8" 2-Way In-Wall Speaker Pair 300-372
Edit: The design using the markaudio drivers is kinda cool, but again, as stated by the designer of the markaudio drivers, "They are not woofers." They're not really designed to play much below 50-60 cycles with any amount of authority and asking them to play loud is probably not a good idea.
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Zaph|Audio - ZA5 Speaker Designs with ZA14W08 woofer and Vifa DQ25SC16-04 tweeter
Hi, worth a look just to see how the design changes for the various options, rgds, sreten.
Hi, worth a look just to see how the design changes for the various options, rgds, sreten.
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I've owned these before, for a 5.1 set up
Mirage : Bookshelf Speakers : OS³-Sat
BIG sound small speaker. Needs a sub.
I liked them better than my magnepans mmg's
Mirage : Bookshelf Speakers : OS³-Sat
BIG sound small speaker. Needs a sub.
I liked them better than my magnepans mmg's
update: on-walls are out. a sub is out.
so i'm basically left with in-wall speakers on either side of that tv stand thing and one center channel under the tv. The CC seems rather straightforward given that i have plenty of depth and don't need it to go below ~80 or 100 hz.
I'm stumped and would definitely appreciate a nudge in the right direction on the in-wall speakers. i can't find anything anyone has built/designed that narrow (3.5in - 4in) that is still going to have decent bass response. another constraint: any port needs to be close to the driver so i can cover with one grill.
is this possible?
so i'm basically left with in-wall speakers on either side of that tv stand thing and one center channel under the tv. The CC seems rather straightforward given that i have plenty of depth and don't need it to go below ~80 or 100 hz.
I'm stumped and would definitely appreciate a nudge in the right direction on the in-wall speakers. i can't find anything anyone has built/designed that narrow (3.5in - 4in) that is still going to have decent bass response. another constraint: any port needs to be close to the driver so i can cover with one grill.
is this possible?
As far as I know, In wall speakers are all of the infinite baffle type, so you won't have to worry about ports. If you're looking for a diy in-wall setup, I'd send you to the page mentioned by sreten, here: Zaph|Audio - ZA5 Speaker Designs with ZA14W08 woofer and Vifa DQ25SC16-04 tweeter
There are some variations of these if you scroll down that are designed for in-wall.
Edit: You'll probably have a tough time with ~4" of width, your life gets a lot better around the 7-8" widths for main speakers.
In case it isn't clear in the way i phrased things-- i have 16" of width (between the studs), essentially unlimited height (height of the wall), but only 3.5-4" of depth (thickness of the wall).
i have seen quite a few full range examples (although i'm unsure about bass response) that meet the geometric requirements (ie. Mileva)
8" two-way?
Several years ago, I did a pair of in-wall speakers, essentially a Kef "coda". 8" woofer and 3/4" dome. Similar parts should be pretty available, and we used that system for years for TV in our bedroom. Plenty of headroom and decent sound.
Something like:
Dayton Audio UA711 Speaker Kit w/o Cabinet 302-853
perhaps?
Several years ago, I did a pair of in-wall speakers, essentially a Kef "coda". 8" woofer and 3/4" dome. Similar parts should be pretty available, and we used that system for years for TV in our bedroom. Plenty of headroom and decent sound.
Something like:
Dayton Audio UA711 Speaker Kit w/o Cabinet 302-853
perhaps?
John, if you go in-wall you must choose a design without baffle step and/or baffle diffraction factored into the xo. That means anything designed to go in a box is out.
The Zaph designs suggested by sreten fit the bill well. You can do L and R in-wall's plus an accompanying CC box designed to match. If you're going without a sub, why limit yourself to 80 - 100Hz? Go as deep as you can. Or add an in-wall sub as well - if they'll be covered with grill cloth, none of the drivers are going to be seen.
Personally however I wouldn't choose to cut up my walls, take off the baseboards to run cable etc unless it was the absolute last resort, especially when this isn't even your main viewing area.
Some things to consider if you haven't done so already:
What are your listening objectives here?
How loud do they need to go?
What's your budget?
Are you limiting yourself to a proven design?
Is this an AV application only or also for music?
Can you not perhaps compromise with the boss and go with a couple of small L and R speakers on the wall unit's shelves? If the TV is small enough and you're not too critical for this application, don't even bother with the CC. Or not....
If the shelves are out of the question for L and R (but not the CC?) take a look at this thread, http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/225622-ever-think-building-cornu-spiral-horn-now-you-can.html for something completely out of the box.
See those bird prints you have framed in the corner of the room? How would something similar mounted on each side of your wall unit go down? And without a sub, the added LF of these cornu spirals might be just what you're looking for.
The Zaph designs suggested by sreten fit the bill well. You can do L and R in-wall's plus an accompanying CC box designed to match. If you're going without a sub, why limit yourself to 80 - 100Hz? Go as deep as you can. Or add an in-wall sub as well - if they'll be covered with grill cloth, none of the drivers are going to be seen.
Personally however I wouldn't choose to cut up my walls, take off the baseboards to run cable etc unless it was the absolute last resort, especially when this isn't even your main viewing area.
Some things to consider if you haven't done so already:
What are your listening objectives here?
How loud do they need to go?
What's your budget?
Are you limiting yourself to a proven design?
Is this an AV application only or also for music?
Can you not perhaps compromise with the boss and go with a couple of small L and R speakers on the wall unit's shelves? If the TV is small enough and you're not too critical for this application, don't even bother with the CC. Or not....
If the shelves are out of the question for L and R (but not the CC?) take a look at this thread, http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/225622-ever-think-building-cornu-spiral-horn-now-you-can.html for something completely out of the box.
See those bird prints you have framed in the corner of the room? How would something similar mounted on each side of your wall unit go down? And without a sub, the added LF of these cornu spirals might be just what you're looking for.
An 8' stud filled with fiberglass has an effective interior volume of like 3.3 cubic feet.
But forget all that in-wall, sounds like your wife will hate it.
Just build some L/Rs that will fit onto the shelves adjacent to the middle of the TV. There is enough volume there for decent bass. Forget the center with such narrow spacing.*
You could maybe fit a decent sub onto the bottom shelf-or two! Ideally, you would make them look EXACTLY like the drawers on either side (or redo those drawers to match!). Again, there is a fair amount of cubic footage on each shelf to make like a rear-facing manifold/slot-load where the woofers face each other to cancel vibration (or one faces the other's back, wired out-of-phase).
It will look really really slick and your wife will be super happy.
Now...to power those subs, too bad receivers generally won't let you wire extra channels lowpassed...but you can get a variety of power amps from eBay or even Guitar Center that will work, probably cheaper than a Class D plate amp from Parts Express.
If you're not happy about the somewhat narrow image compared to in-walls, let me say:
- Eh, a few years, she'll want to change everything anyway, don't do anything permanent to the walls.
- Put some drivers on the side a la Bose or Definitive.
- But hey, you said you had a theater, this is NOT the ultimate experience, you're just looking for better sound.
*Unless you put the L/Rs on the shelves towards the top of the TV, drop the TV down off it's stand, and hang a matching center above the TV, same height as the L/Rs. Then you'd have a monolithic grille appearance across, nice and neat.
But forget all that in-wall, sounds like your wife will hate it.
Just build some L/Rs that will fit onto the shelves adjacent to the middle of the TV. There is enough volume there for decent bass. Forget the center with such narrow spacing.*
You could maybe fit a decent sub onto the bottom shelf-or two! Ideally, you would make them look EXACTLY like the drawers on either side (or redo those drawers to match!). Again, there is a fair amount of cubic footage on each shelf to make like a rear-facing manifold/slot-load where the woofers face each other to cancel vibration (or one faces the other's back, wired out-of-phase).
It will look really really slick and your wife will be super happy.
Now...to power those subs, too bad receivers generally won't let you wire extra channels lowpassed...but you can get a variety of power amps from eBay or even Guitar Center that will work, probably cheaper than a Class D plate amp from Parts Express.
If you're not happy about the somewhat narrow image compared to in-walls, let me say:
- Eh, a few years, she'll want to change everything anyway, don't do anything permanent to the walls.
- Put some drivers on the side a la Bose or Definitive.
- But hey, you said you had a theater, this is NOT the ultimate experience, you're just looking for better sound.
*Unless you put the L/Rs on the shelves towards the top of the TV, drop the TV down off it's stand, and hang a matching center above the TV, same height as the L/Rs. Then you'd have a monolithic grille appearance across, nice and neat.
Or perhaps build a sub as a piece of furniture. Or a flat and shallow sub that will fit underneath a piece of furniture. Something like the Boogieman on this page for example Home Subwoofer Projects Created By Parts Express Customers, Home Theater Subwoofer Designs, Material Selection, Enclosure Assembly, Home Audio/Video Subwoofer Projects, DIY Home Theater
Still have to deal with the wires of course.
Point being, options remain before you have to start cutting up your walls.
Still have to deal with the wires of course.
Point being, options remain before you have to start cutting up your walls.
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