Hello
I would really appreciate some advice on the best way forward on a project I am planning. I am new to this, and still perusing the various links on the web, so please excuse any stupid questions...
I recently inherited some speakers that are at least 8-9 years old if not more, but in fairly good shape. My plan is to upgrade them to better drivers so that I get better quality sound and more importantly, I learn something as I go along. Firstly, some details about these speakers:
These are Sony 3 way speakers. I suspect they are nothing fancy, the basic design seems to have been released over 20 years ago. (The exact model is SS-A507E if anyone is interested.) Dimensions are 25 x 20 x 48 cm, made of MDF. The enclosure is acoustic suspension and is sealed. The inside is packed with some sort of foam packing material. The woofer is a 16 cm one, with some generic "Sony" marking on it and is a 6 ohm one. The mid range is a 6.5 cm one with "Sony China" marking and is a 8 ohm one. The tweeter is a 5 cm one with some generic "Sony Thailand" marking on it. The rated frequency response for the whole speaker combo is 45 HZ - 20 KHz with maximum power of 100W. There are some sensitivity figures, but I dont recall those. Currently, all the drivers seem to be in good shape. Sound is okay, but midrange is muddied with less top range.
The problem I have is that I dont have the cross over frequencies for any of the speakers. I took a look at the crossover board, but beyond a couple of electrolytic capacitors and inductor coils, could not decipher anything from it. My long term plan is to eventually replace all the drivers and get better sound. I never listen at really loud levels. My listening is currently 50% music and 50% home theatre. I am running a 2.1 system, and the subwoofer is pretty decent. It is powered by an Onkyo TX NR414 receiver. The room is 18 feet by 13 feet and is a rectangle.
My budget is tight so the plan was:
1. Replace the crossover components with better equivalents. I can handle the soldering
2. Replace the midrange with a "better" driver
3. Replace the tweeter when budget permits
Now the questions:
1. My plan was to use as wide range a driver for the midrange as possible given that I do not know the crossover frequency, something like the ND65-8 from Dayton audio. That way, I should be okay. What rms wattage speaker would I need? I am very confused on this: The Onkyo amp claims 130W at FTC load for 6 ohm speakers, which as I understand is not RMS, but is not peak either. Do I need a high wattage driver? Driver wattages are in RMS so cant really compare the two. What would you suggest?
2. What drivers would you suggest for the midrange? I am rubbish at wood working so I dont think it would be easy for me to replace the current speaker baffle. So something that fits the existing baffle cutout would be great. I think it will be easier to enlarge a baffle (how does one do that? ) Existing baffle cutout should be around 5-5.5 cm given that the midrange is 6.5 cm wide.
3. What are your views on ribbon tweeters? Are they worth the extra money?
Your tips and advice greatly appreciated. IF you think the above is a bad idea, feel free to shoot it down as well.
I would really appreciate some advice on the best way forward on a project I am planning. I am new to this, and still perusing the various links on the web, so please excuse any stupid questions...
I recently inherited some speakers that are at least 8-9 years old if not more, but in fairly good shape. My plan is to upgrade them to better drivers so that I get better quality sound and more importantly, I learn something as I go along. Firstly, some details about these speakers:
These are Sony 3 way speakers. I suspect they are nothing fancy, the basic design seems to have been released over 20 years ago. (The exact model is SS-A507E if anyone is interested.) Dimensions are 25 x 20 x 48 cm, made of MDF. The enclosure is acoustic suspension and is sealed. The inside is packed with some sort of foam packing material. The woofer is a 16 cm one, with some generic "Sony" marking on it and is a 6 ohm one. The mid range is a 6.5 cm one with "Sony China" marking and is a 8 ohm one. The tweeter is a 5 cm one with some generic "Sony Thailand" marking on it. The rated frequency response for the whole speaker combo is 45 HZ - 20 KHz with maximum power of 100W. There are some sensitivity figures, but I dont recall those. Currently, all the drivers seem to be in good shape. Sound is okay, but midrange is muddied with less top range.
The problem I have is that I dont have the cross over frequencies for any of the speakers. I took a look at the crossover board, but beyond a couple of electrolytic capacitors and inductor coils, could not decipher anything from it. My long term plan is to eventually replace all the drivers and get better sound. I never listen at really loud levels. My listening is currently 50% music and 50% home theatre. I am running a 2.1 system, and the subwoofer is pretty decent. It is powered by an Onkyo TX NR414 receiver. The room is 18 feet by 13 feet and is a rectangle.
My budget is tight so the plan was:
1. Replace the crossover components with better equivalents. I can handle the soldering
2. Replace the midrange with a "better" driver
3. Replace the tweeter when budget permits
Now the questions:
1. My plan was to use as wide range a driver for the midrange as possible given that I do not know the crossover frequency, something like the ND65-8 from Dayton audio. That way, I should be okay. What rms wattage speaker would I need? I am very confused on this: The Onkyo amp claims 130W at FTC load for 6 ohm speakers, which as I understand is not RMS, but is not peak either. Do I need a high wattage driver? Driver wattages are in RMS so cant really compare the two. What would you suggest?
2. What drivers would you suggest for the midrange? I am rubbish at wood working so I dont think it would be easy for me to replace the current speaker baffle. So something that fits the existing baffle cutout would be great. I think it will be easier to enlarge a baffle (how does one do that? ) Existing baffle cutout should be around 5-5.5 cm given that the midrange is 6.5 cm wide.
3. What are your views on ribbon tweeters? Are they worth the extra money?
Your tips and advice greatly appreciated. IF you think the above is a bad idea, feel free to shoot it down as well.
I always think a box is a box. You can add a few hardwood battens along the edges if it seems flimsy! 
About 15L. You could use a jigsaw and some new M4 Tee nuts and 40mm bolts to fit a bigger driver.
Bolt T-Nut Set
Start with akit you like like one of Troels': DIY Loudspeakers
This one looks about right:
CA18RLY/22TAF-G
Turn the tweeter hole into a reflex with a bit of plastic tubing. I'd start with the crossover and the new SEAS tweeter and hope it works with your existing woofer. They often do, sometimes you add a little resistance to line up the tweeter level. Start by measuring the existing cutouts and it all becomes easy.
About 15L. You could use a jigsaw and some new M4 Tee nuts and 40mm bolts to fit a bigger driver.
Bolt T-Nut Set
Start with akit you like like one of Troels': DIY Loudspeakers
This one looks about right:
CA18RLY/22TAF-G
Turn the tweeter hole into a reflex with a bit of plastic tubing. I'd start with the crossover and the new SEAS tweeter and hope it works with your existing woofer. They often do, sometimes you add a little resistance to line up the tweeter level. Start by measuring the existing cutouts and it all becomes easy.
Hi,
In my book a crappy box is a crappy box, and it doesn't
take much to do a lot better if you know what to look for.
I completely disagree. A box is not just a box, all good
speakers have good box designs, and putting decent
drivers or a good design into those cabinets a waste.
rgds, sreten.
In my book a crappy box is a crappy box, and it doesn't
take much to do a lot better if you know what to look for.
I completely disagree. A box is not just a box, all good
speakers have good box designs, and putting decent
drivers or a good design into those cabinets a waste.
rgds, sreten.
I refer you to my previous answer on improving boxes:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/223174-interesting-read-i-found-lossy-cabinet-designs-harbeth.html
Where it is possible to go badly wrong, is in thinking that you can just add bracing to a box. In fact it often makes it worse and creates rattles. A reflex design is not actually all that demanding. The good SEAS drivers in an average box I suggested are hardly high-end, but will satisfy most people. 5X better than most off-the-shelf purchases. I have had tremendous success upgrading old speaker boxes. Which is why DIY is such fun. Don't be a wet blanket.
Hi Patnio,
Before blindly replacing some components of your speaker, you first should know what you are dealing with. I found an interesting page decribing the vented version A507, which has a different woofer, but the same midrange and tweeter:
Wymiana g?o?ników w kolumnie SONY na Tesle ARN 188 i ARV 104
The midrange seems to be a closed cone, operating above 3-4 kHz. The crossover is a single 2.2 uF capacitor and the spl around 88 dB. Surprise, the midrange is actually a tweeter! Replacing that midrange by a Dayton ND65-8 does not work for sure.
Therefore the minimum budget improvement of your speaker would be:
Remove original midrange and tweeter and replace them by a cheap dome tweeter. Use a 2nd order high-pass filter at 2.5 kHz and a L-pad as crossover.
BC25SC-06/04 - Vifa 1 inch Neodymium textile tweeter - Europe Audio
BC25TG-15/04 - Vifa 1″ ferrite magnet tweeter - Europe Audio
DT-99 - Monacor HiFi dome tweeter 80Wmax 8 Ohm - Europe Audio
Before blindly replacing some components of your speaker, you first should know what you are dealing with. I found an interesting page decribing the vented version A507, which has a different woofer, but the same midrange and tweeter:
Wymiana g?o?ników w kolumnie SONY na Tesle ARN 188 i ARV 104
The midrange seems to be a closed cone, operating above 3-4 kHz. The crossover is a single 2.2 uF capacitor and the spl around 88 dB. Surprise, the midrange is actually a tweeter! Replacing that midrange by a Dayton ND65-8 does not work for sure.
Therefore the minimum budget improvement of your speaker would be:
Remove original midrange and tweeter and replace them by a cheap dome tweeter. Use a 2nd order high-pass filter at 2.5 kHz and a L-pad as crossover.
BC25SC-06/04 - Vifa 1 inch Neodymium textile tweeter - Europe Audio
BC25TG-15/04 - Vifa 1″ ferrite magnet tweeter - Europe Audio
DT-99 - Monacor HiFi dome tweeter 80Wmax 8 Ohm - Europe Audio
Hello
Thanks for the replies. I looked into the cabinets: new seem to be outside the budget completely, and I will have to wait to see if decent old ones come along...
Perhaps when I get better at all this, that is definitely on the cards
Dissi:
Your google skills are greater than mine, I admit
I have been trying to find something on the A507 for a while now but never did succeed. All I got was the service manual... that had the info that I posted but nothing about the crossovers.
Thank you for the links, I havent gone through them yet since bing/google translate functions are blocked at work but will do at home. Meanwhile some questions:
If the midrange is really a tweeter (since it has such as high cutoff), why do you think there are two of them then? BTW you are spot on since I am seeing lack of high range frequencies...
Are you suggesting that I replace both the current midrange and tweeters with 2 x tweeters from the link you mentioned? I would have thought one would be enough and just disconnect the other one (making this a two way effectively)?
Given that I will end up designing a new crossover anyway, what do you think of removing the current midrange and tweeter and putting in a real midrange and tweeter in its place with relevant crossovers?
Also, any pointers on what wattage speakers I should be using will be appreciated for the midrange. Please see my original post for details on the amp I am using.
Once again, thanks very much for all this. I am looking at this project as my first attempt to learn something, so I dont mind even if I fail or the output is not the best that it can be..
Thanks for the replies. I looked into the cabinets: new seem to be outside the budget completely, and I will have to wait to see if decent old ones come along...
Perhaps when I get better at all this, that is definitely on the cards
Dissi:
Your google skills are greater than mine, I admit
I have been trying to find something on the A507 for a while now but never did succeed. All I got was the service manual... that had the info that I posted but nothing about the crossovers.
Thank you for the links, I havent gone through them yet since bing/google translate functions are blocked at work but will do at home. Meanwhile some questions:
If the midrange is really a tweeter (since it has such as high cutoff), why do you think there are two of them then? BTW you are spot on since I am seeing lack of high range frequencies...
Are you suggesting that I replace both the current midrange and tweeters with 2 x tweeters from the link you mentioned? I would have thought one would be enough and just disconnect the other one (making this a two way effectively)?
Given that I will end up designing a new crossover anyway, what do you think of removing the current midrange and tweeter and putting in a real midrange and tweeter in its place with relevant crossovers?
Also, any pointers on what wattage speakers I should be using will be appreciated for the midrange. Please see my original post for details on the amp I am using.
Once again, thanks very much for all this. I am looking at this project as my first attempt to learn something, so I dont mind even if I fail or the output is not the best that it can be..
Marketing reasons, to sell it as 3-way. Two tweeters and both not able to produce decent treble.
One tweeter is enough. You get a 2-way consisting of the original woofer and a new tweeter.
Too complicated, expensive and not worth having only a medium quality 16 cm woofer.
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