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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 16th January 2013, 04:05 PM   #21
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Another way to look at it is this. If one were to use filters of infinite order, then you would literally end up with the tweeter needing to output at full amplitude right up until the xover frequency.
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Old 16th January 2013, 04:16 PM   #22
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By 'ek, that thar be too profound for the likes of me.

Humour aside, good point better made that I'm ever likely to manage.
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Old 16th January 2013, 04:33 PM   #23
ra7 is offline ra7  United States
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So, what you guys are saying is that the tweeter is distorting as it nears the crossover frequency and a gentler slope might help it? This is again a design trade-off, accounting for poor performance or less than optimal choice of crossover frequency. Ultimately, it will have to be -6db at the crossover for LR.

It all depends on the drivers, the design choices and goals.
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Old 16th January 2013, 04:38 PM   #24
pos is offline pos  Europe
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Originally Posted by Bazukaz View Post
I have found some but not for 48db/oct slopes, and rePhase can only generate but not re-process existing files.
To run the impulse generated by rephase you can either use a convolution plugin in your favorite mediaplayer (such as convolver for foobar for example), or use SoX to process your audio file off line.
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Old 16th January 2013, 05:05 PM   #25
Elias is offline Elias  Finland
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Originally Posted by 5th element View Post
If one were to use filters of infinite order, then you would literally end up with the tweeter needing to output at full amplitude right up until the xover frequency.
Well, no, since with infinite order filter the group delay would also be infinite so the signal would never reach up to the tweeter. There simply would be no sound, never


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Old 16th January 2013, 05:12 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Bazukaz View Post
Frequency response analysis did not reveal any problems.
Still need to see specific examples for this to be anything more than yet another discussion on the merits of various crossovers. If there's nothing clear from an on-axis gated response measurement, then you need to get into polar measurements and/or phase. I don't see much point in a bunch of people guessing what it could be without knowing what the drivers are and seeing measurements and the speakers. Maybe you're just doing a better job of using lower order filters than you are with the higher orders.

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Yes I understand this well. However quarter wavelength at 2.5 kHz is just ~3.5 cm and this is obviously almost never possible to achieve between driver centers.Also when the listener is moving in the room phase will be shifting constantly and different depending on frequency; combined with offset drivers this gives phase corrections across a wide range of positions mostly meaningless IMO.
Whether or not you're concerned about phase tilting, absolute phase coherence at crossover, and so on, it's still important to look at the phase carefully, or at least see what it's doing by taking a lot of response measurements. To oversimplify a bit: if your driver phase is well-aligned at/around the crossover point on the middle axis of the speaker, then you just need to consider the null angles that result from whatever your driver spacing is, and whether there's any problem with that. If your phase alignment is anything else, then the entire vertical polar response should probably be evaluated.
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Old 16th January 2013, 05:17 PM   #27
Boden is offline Boden  Netherlands
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I just read through 25 posts. Yet nobody cared to ask the OP for posting SPL measurements of his system on 1 meter from the tweeter axis,and 30/60/90 degrees off axis horizontally and vertically? Without these it is all highly speculative, imho

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Old 16th January 2013, 05:41 PM   #28
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Old 16th January 2013, 05:59 PM   #29
sreten is online now sreten  United Kingdom
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Without these it is all highly speculative, imho

Eelco
Hi,

Not really. 48dB/octave slopes have obvious repercussions.
not least of which is phase wrap and attendant group delay.

See Zaphs discussion here :
Zaph|Audio - ZD5 - Scan Speak 15W8530K00 and Vifa XT25

rgds, sreten.
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Old 16th January 2013, 06:05 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by ra7 View Post
So, what you guys are saying is that the tweeter is distorting as it nears the crossover frequency and a gentler slope might help it? This is again a design trade-off, accounting for poor performance or less than optimal choice of crossover frequency. Ultimately, it will have to be -6db at the crossover for LR.

It all depends on the drivers, the design choices and goals.
Er, yes, that's what we said. I took it for granted that people would appreciate the fact that everything is a compromise & that it is ultimately a question of selecting the one that best suits a given set of requirements.
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