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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 27th January 2013, 03:47 PM   #71
ODougbo is offline ODougbo  United States
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Did make a few tweaks: plastic screen, 6oz fill, added more felt. And of course glued them; that was the biggest change, lots of robust bass now.

I was curious about the woofer, made up a 1.8mh (14G)/7 uf cap and tried it, there was lot more lower end, but didn't sound as good overall.
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Old 27th January 2013, 05:21 PM   #72
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Great to hear it's working out.

When you lower the inductor, you'll get more bass. Too much and you'll lose the mids. It's all a question of having the right balance.

In a 2-way, it's more difficult because the woofer is trying to do bass and mids. Actually, it's more than this. Bass is made up of mid bass and low bass. That in itself is already difficult.
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Old 28th January 2013, 02:20 PM   #73
ODougbo is offline ODougbo  United States
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Zobel that's exactly what I needed here (Michael C. made suggestions) I tried a few, just clipped them in.

Not hating this 12uf and 3.3 R
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Old 28th January 2013, 03:34 PM   #74
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FYI

There was a little sizzle in the upper mid - gone now





Quote:
Originally Posted by ODougbo View Post
Zobel that's exactly what I needed here (Michael C. made suggestions) I tried a few, just clipped them in.

Not hating this 12uf and 3.3 R
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Old 31st January 2013, 08:54 AM   #75
ODougbo is offline ODougbo  United States
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Just had to find out how this would work in HT

It's a lot of speaker for $30 woofers and $32 tweeters. Cost of xo TBD.

I did find this link Michael: "ORIOLE" (W5-704 + RT1C) Bookshelf by AmpsLab

Very nice, almost wish I hadn't; I do like 13 liter boxes and may be next project.
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Old 31st January 2013, 04:02 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ODougbo View Post
Just had to find out how this would work in HT

It's a lot of speaker for $30 woofers and $32 tweeters. Cost of xo TBD.

I did find this link Michael: "ORIOLE" (W5-704 + RT1C) Bookshelf by AmpsLab

Very nice, almost wish I hadn't; I do like 13 liter boxes and may be next project.
I think the xover could be better designed. He uses a local BSC filter, and you therefore have an excessive parts count. Not that the driver set isn't possible, as it would likely work okay. Also, the topend droop is not visible in his plots of the RT, and he uses a peaked BW filter for the transfer funtion. Not the best in terms of implementation.

Later,
Wolf
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Old 3rd February 2013, 08:52 AM   #77
ODougbo is offline ODougbo  United States
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Less part count, a couple of thoughts:

The Vifa tweeter sounds great, nice detail, etc. so not much work needed there. I did try reversing the leads, ugh didn't like that at all.

The woofer has a breakup near the xo point (actually they both do) so a second order filer is out. Back on post 71, tried a 1.8/7uf 2nd order and ultimately ended up with a woofer that was heavy on bass and an odd midrange. I'm sticking with the 3rd order xo.

Have a pair of 3.9uf Clarity Caps, going to try replacing the 6.2uf. (tweeter)

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Last edited by ODougbo; 3rd February 2013 at 08:54 AM.
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Old 3rd February 2013, 01:22 PM   #78
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When you tame the woofer breakup, then balance the the levels again, you will need to keep the phase we found. An 8 dB dip at crossover is just not a good thing. What you are hearing now is it is unmasking other issues. The XT25 REALLY needs to be crossed over more like 3K. That makes the notches for the woofer all the more critical. I know some will argue, but a Zobel on the woofer will not do as much good as the notches. You are running into a basic problem. A woofer that can get down low enough just can't reach the Vifa. The Vifa is batter suited to a three way or to a smaller woofer, like a mini-monitor 4 incher that can get that high.

The lesson from yesterday is that measurement can hone in on issues really quick, but it does not solve them. Every fix leads to the next problem.

As it is 27 in my workshop, not doing any cabinet work myself today.
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Old 3rd February 2013, 04:03 PM   #79
ODougbo is offline ODougbo  United States
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I did want to go back and re-test the new boxes; so went back to original design, but did change one cap as a result of the testing.

This does sound the best so far - Pic.

The boxes are better/stronger so that was a success.
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Old 4th February 2013, 08:07 AM   #80
ODougbo is offline ODougbo  United States
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8 dB dip at crossover sounds sooooo... depressing; would the distance from the woofer/tweeter make a difference? It's closer now - less than an inch; they do sound a bit lighter/chipper now.

Again thanks to Michael for suggesting this, it's been a great project AND they sound great. Even as a xo noob I can tell there was a lot of thinking behind the design
*
Vifa XT25 and mini woofer, sound likes the center I'm using in HT
(looks like they added Leap xo design and graph on link - 2,500hz)

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Last edited by ODougbo; 4th February 2013 at 08:11 AM.
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