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Old 4th January 2013, 11:31 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post
You're right, we're at odds. But I don't disagree you probably get a lot of enjoyment out of your added tweeter. I just don't think it's because of additional top octave output
We'll have to agree to disagree (apparently we appear to be arguing, but I haven't lost any respect for you throughout the discussion).

Anyway, I have the tweeter hooked up the the "B" terminals on my receiver.

When I enable and disable the "B" speakers, there is a subtle but significant difference in the highs.

I don't know what else I can say, but that's what I hear. My wife hears it and she didn't even know she was supposed to...

So, if it isn't the additional top-octave output, why are we enjoying the tweeters?
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Old 5th January 2013, 12:04 AM   #72
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I think you're hearing <8khz content. That's all. There's a lot more in that area of music to enjoy than >10khz.

And we're not arguing. At least I wasn't. This last post of yours surprises me
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Old 5th January 2013, 12:10 AM   #73
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No, I wasn't arguing either. Some people seem to have perceived it that way is all I meant.

Are cymbals below 8k? I honestly don't know, but assumed they were over 10k.
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Old 5th January 2013, 12:13 AM   #74
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A quick google; "Typical hi-hats are usually between 300-3000 Hz dominant frequencies, and can extend up to 10-17k Hz for crispness, “air” and sparkle."

Ride cymbals and crash cymbals go there as well.

Not to mention the harmonics of fingers sliding on guitar strings, etc. which I have been able to hear much better with the tweeters.

I am convinced it is this +10k area that I am hearing. I know I can hear all the way up to 15k, as I have tested it several times.

Last edited by cogitech; 5th January 2013 at 12:17 AM.
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Old 5th January 2013, 05:24 PM   #75
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While I'm waiting for my tweeters to arrive I decided to get a little bit nerdy. I downloaded a demo of a piece of software called FuzzMeasure and installed it onto my MacBook Pro. I connected the output of my MacBook to my LM4780 chip amp which runs my Derwent full range speakers with the CSS EL70 drivers.

I placed the MacBook 1m from the speaker and ran the test. Here is the result.


Click the image to open in full size.

I was only using the built in microphone of the MacBook as I haven't got an expensive mic to test speakers with, but before I tested my speakers, I ran a quick test using the MacBooks internal speakers and it's microphone and the frequency response was pretty flat. From from the graph, you can see a drop off starting at about 7Khz, which is significant after 10K. I think the addition of tweeters will definitely help my speakers.

I didn't have the amp or output of the MacBook turned up full, so the magnitude isn't as high as it could have gone, but it still gives me an idea to how the speakers perform.
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Last edited by portreathbeach; 5th January 2013 at 05:27 PM.
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Old 5th January 2013, 05:45 PM   #76
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In the last month I have added rear and upward firing Piezo horn tweeters crossed over at 6K with a 1.22uf stacked film feeding a 22 ohm resistor and the Piezo is connected across the 22 ohm, with a 20 ohm connected to the + lug of the Piezo. This is powered by the main amp. The Piezo's are mounted higher that the main speakers. These very inexpensive horns have made a good improvement in "air" and decay, makeing the room sound larger that it is. The whole project cost less that $20 US. Can't beat a Piezo for cost and high freq SPL per dollar.
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Old 5th January 2013, 08:35 PM   #77
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Portreatbeach, every webcam and laptop mic I've ever tried, has dropped quickly above 4 to 6khz. Most much more than yours is showing. I wouldn't reply on the results you've got there.
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Old 5th January 2013, 08:40 PM   #78
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Can you suggest a fairly cheap mic that would be more accurate
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Old 5th January 2013, 09:22 PM   #79
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Well, if you can DIY, there's the Panasonic WM61a
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Old 6th January 2013, 01:09 AM   #80
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I got a little nerdy today too. Found REW online and was happy to find it runs in Linux perfectly.

Measured from about 1m away, on axis.
Blue = just EL70
Red = just tweeter
Green = EL70 + tweeter

Click the image to open in full size.

My tweeters are coming in way earlier than thought. I suspect the old caps are no good. Going to recap with 2.2 uF and maybe even 1uF, and do more measuring. Although it appears my EL70s can use a bit of help starting at around 4k.

Last edited by cogitech; 6th January 2013 at 01:12 AM.
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