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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 2nd January 2013, 11:25 PM   #41
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I have experience with the Dayton ND20, Vifa XT25SC90, and ERT26. I also own 2 pairs of EL70. I've also measured the frequency response and used all these drivers in various designs. What do you want to know
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Old 2nd January 2013, 11:36 PM   #42
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Here is 3 different EL70s, red and green in one of Planet10s boxes, blue in a little sealed box.

Click the image to open in full size.

As you can see, things get ugly up over 4khz. Personally I don't feel the need for a tweeter. Others say they do. I do however find the beam a lot. So if you need more dispersion or you listen off axis, this may be related to you desire for a tweeter.

I just looked at my ERT26 measurement and it does have a small dip around 13khz. Not bad though. I just looked at my Vifa measurement and it also had a dip, albeit a little less than the ERT26. But my Dayton measurement has a peak in the upper octave. Will you hear those? Nope. We can take a lot of frequency aberation in the top octave.

FWIW, I crossed the Vifa and the ERT both down around 2khz without much fuss. I wouldn't let that ND20 down much below 4khz. I did a 6th order (36db/octave) at 3500hz with it, iirc. That was active, the others were passive.

How does one sound over the other? Can't tell you, they were all different speakers and application, and way up there, it could be just about anything as long as it makes noise.
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Old 2nd January 2013, 11:55 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post
.....and way up there, it could be just about anything as long as it makes noise.
This was my feeling exactly when I decided to "splurge" on the ancient Sansui AA-2900s.
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Old 3rd January 2013, 01:09 AM   #44
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Well, no photos as of yet, because I would rather drink another beer and listen to Ernie Watts, but I did look at the crossover and after some figuring with an online crossover calc it seems it is a first order crossed at around 6.5k.

Synergy at work here. It is filling in right where the EL70 starts to "roll off", and in the upfiring position it is very sonically inconspicuous.

I am thinking of maybe mounting them in small, wooden spheres and suspending them a few inches above the top-mounted EL70 drivers, which will turn those into omnis...
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Old 3rd January 2013, 05:45 AM   #45
ODougbo is offline ODougbo  United States
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Post 44
W5-1611 SAF - The Sequel
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Old 3rd January 2013, 07:09 AM   #46
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Thanks for the info tuxedocivic. I'll probably get the Daytons and experiment.
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Old 3rd January 2013, 04:17 PM   #47
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portreathbeach, looking forward to hearing how your project goes. BTW, that VW van project of yours is awesome!

Dave, here are some photos I took this morning with a crappy cell phone camera. The photo of the crossover is blurry, but what you are seeing there is:

- pink/pink-black = terminal leads
- red/black = woofer leads (which are currently not connected to anything)
- white/white-black = tweeter leads
- Rubycon 35v 3.3 uF cap
- 3.3 ohm resistor
- inductor coil of unknown value

The tweeter is 7.3 ohms and the (omitted) woofer is 5.9 ohms. Both are "Sansui" branded.

I suspect the 3.3 ohm resistor is just there to bring the total load to 8 ohms, (and perhaps attenuate the tweeter as well?).

Click the image to open in full size.
Click the image to open in full size.
Click the image to open in full size.
Click the image to open in full size.

Last edited by cogitech; 3rd January 2013 at 04:36 PM.
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Old 3rd January 2013, 04:34 PM   #48
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I am considering swapping the 3.3 uF cap with a 2.2 uF or 2 uF cap, for a higher crossover point. The EL70 drivers are still fairly strong up to about 10k (although tuxedocivic's measurements give me pause). I might then bypass the 3.3 ohm resistor as well...

Thoughts?

Last edited by cogitech; 3rd January 2013 at 04:40 PM.
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Old 3rd January 2013, 04:39 PM   #49
Bare is offline Bare  Canada
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Erm.. get yourself down to an Audiologists office and have your Hearing measured. Could save a lot of fooling about with your pore speakers ?
Unlikely... any adult male human can hear even close to the range that most typical tweeters can deliver.
However some believe, often with religious zeal, that they can perceive even Ultrasonics. Presumably through their Fundamental Orfices.. Go figure
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Old 3rd January 2013, 04:47 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Bare View Post
Erm.. get yourself down to an Audiologists office and have your Hearing measured. Could save a lot of fooling about with your pore speakers ?
Unlikely... any adult male human can hear even close to the range that most typical tweeters can deliver.
However some believe, often with religious zeal, that they can perceive even Ultrasonics. Presumably through their Fundamental Orfices.. Go figure
Nonsense. I can hear up into the 14-15k region without issue. I am 42 and I have tinitus which, oddly enough, sounds about like 16k. My 10 and 11 year old daughters can hear well past that, of course, to nearly 18k.

Point is, if my tweeters are filling in from 6.5k to 15k for me, then it is no surprise that I can hear the difference. No magic involved.

Play with a tone generator some time and you might surprise yourself. If you can't hear 14k then you have significant hearing loss (or you need tweeters!)

Last edited by cogitech; 3rd January 2013 at 05:06 PM.
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