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Old 29th December 2012, 07:35 PM   #21
SY is offline SY  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pano View Post
Obviously not. It's being discussed right here, isn't it?
Indeed. Perhaps some nice fellow who is quick with Goldwave could prepare a couple of files like I suggested above to isolate the effect of group delay, and let people answer the question from experience rather than proclamation?
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Old 29th December 2012, 07:35 PM   #22
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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Yeah, Helmuth - that's one way of looking at it. But I have no idea if the audibility stays at a constant product over the frequency range.
Someone here should know.
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Old 29th December 2012, 07:37 PM   #23
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Quote:
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Indeed. Perhaps some nice fellow who is quick with Goldwave could prepare a couple of files....
How did you do GD in Goldwave? I've never tried. Game to try it, tho.
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Old 29th December 2012, 07:42 PM   #24
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High inductance on the woofer produces a slow deep bass which is almost like built-in bafflestep compensation. Low Inductance woofers produce fast lighter bass.
To be able to produce "fast" bass a woofer needs to have good HF response, typically one of the benefits of a low inductance woofer. Moot once you add a LP filter.

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Old 29th December 2012, 07:47 PM   #25
Helmuth is offline Helmuth  Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pano View Post
Yeah, Helmuth - that's one way of looking at it. But I have no idea if the audibility stays at a constant product over the frequency range.
Someone here should know.
If it was half cycle the product would be 500 and there for full cycle 1000.

It makes a quick look at GD effect easy when it works this way.
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Last edited by Helmuth; 29th December 2012 at 07:50 PM.
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Old 29th December 2012, 10:37 PM   #26
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It's all about the steepness of the slopes, isn't it?

Group Delay gets worse with steep slopes. This applies to bass rolloff too, and if you can't hear that big closed boxes (2nd Order, 12dB per octave) are faster than reflex (4th Order, 24dB per octave) you must be deaf!

I'd reckon you can alleviate crossover midrange group delay issues with some time alignment between drivers and low order slopes.
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Old 29th December 2012, 10:45 PM   #27
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It's all about the steepness of the slopes, isn't it?
Hi,

Of course it is, which determines phase response. They
are all related, choose your position of the same thing.

rgds, sreten.
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Old 29th December 2012, 11:03 PM   #28
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If you want to test this by listening, I've made some files for you. You'll recognize the song. It has good content below 100Hz
The audio file was split into 2 parts, one was 4th order low pass filtered at 100Hz, the other high pass filtered at 125Hz. The spread is because the filter is butterworth and combines flatter with the slight spread. The file was then recombined. Phase is rotated 180 degs at 110Hz (because of the spread) and continues down to 360 degs at DC. Or vice-versa, depending on how you look at it.

The files are here, you can download them. About 1 min long, each 2.2meg in 320KBS mp3 format. Can you tell which was manipulated, and which was not? Or at least if there is a difference or not between the 3?
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Old 29th December 2012, 11:12 PM   #29
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To find the download:
Click on the cloud beside the file/track. It will take you to the track.
Look for the Down Arrow to download
Attached Images
File Type: png cloud-down.png (5.3 KB, 304 views)
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Old 29th December 2012, 11:18 PM   #30
SY is offline SY  United States
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Well done, Pano! I'd suggest people use the ABX plug in for foobar to determine whether or not they can actually hear the difference.
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