Proac 1sc Clones
Hi,
I am planning clone the Proac 1scs and I have a couple of doubts regarding the cabinet construction.
I was thinking of making the cabinets deeper but keeping the same internal volume for the cabinet. The idea of doing so is to have a separate internal cavity for the crossover to minimize vibrations.
Im not going to lie either: I want to make the cabinets in plywood a la Penaudio Charisma (www.penaudio.fi), and they will also look nicer eing a bit deeper.
The doubt I have is regarding the port for the bass reflex system:
If I add the extra depth and move the port tube further, will that affect the cabinet tuning or performance in onay other way??
I have attached an image with both options included:
On top - the original construction (dimensions are not final yet)
Below - the optional deeper cabinet
Any help will be appreciated, and BTW, if anyone has the precise dimensions of the original PROAC 1sc Id appreciate it a lot if they could pass them on to me... !
Thanks for the help,
B
Hi,
I am planning clone the Proac 1scs and I have a couple of doubts regarding the cabinet construction.
I was thinking of making the cabinets deeper but keeping the same internal volume for the cabinet. The idea of doing so is to have a separate internal cavity for the crossover to minimize vibrations.
Im not going to lie either: I want to make the cabinets in plywood a la Penaudio Charisma (www.penaudio.fi), and they will also look nicer eing a bit deeper.
The doubt I have is regarding the port for the bass reflex system:
If I add the extra depth and move the port tube further, will that affect the cabinet tuning or performance in onay other way??
I have attached an image with both options included:
On top - the original construction (dimensions are not final yet)
Below - the optional deeper cabinet
Any help will be appreciated, and BTW, if anyone has the precise dimensions of the original PROAC 1sc Id appreciate it a lot if they could pass them on to me... !
Thanks for the help,
B
Attachments
It looks like your deeper box will move the port out of the box (the part the woofer sees). This will change the tuning. A secondary effect would be that the port inlet would now be baffled, and that would have some influence on the acoustic length of the port. So you would have to look at what the box tuning would change to and see if that would negatively influence the design. It could be that the volume change is insignificant.
John
John
......
Yes, to tell the truth, this are my first diy speakers, and although I don't understand many things yet, I had the impression that box tuning would probably change....
To tell the truth, I really liked the deeper cabinet: it looks nicer and the speaker would probably be a bit heavier and tend to rock less on the stands.
I anyone else has any comments, here I am.
Thanks again for the tip,
B
Yes, to tell the truth, this are my first diy speakers, and although I don't understand many things yet, I had the impression that box tuning would probably change....
To tell the truth, I really liked the deeper cabinet: it looks nicer and the speaker would probably be a bit heavier and tend to rock less on the stands.
I anyone else has any comments, here I am.
Thanks again for the tip,
B
Hi b_online!
I guess you might want see these pictures (This is not ProAc clone but same idea in capinet:
http://koti.aina.fi/helmi/aw-6i.html
http://www.hifitalo.fi/rak/aw6.htm
By the way, this page is not mine. Unfortunately these pages are only in Finnish but I can translate some text if you want.
I guess you might want see these pictures (This is not ProAc clone but same idea in capinet:
http://koti.aina.fi/helmi/aw-6i.html
http://www.hifitalo.fi/rak/aw6.htm
By the way, this page is not mine. Unfortunately these pages are only in Finnish but I can translate some text if you want.
Translation needed
Yes, that is exactly the look I am looking for my speakers.
The only detail I am not so sure about is how the guy placed the veneer on the top and bottom and the speakers. It doesn't look bad, but it doesn't look as good as the Penaudio charisma speakers. ( www.penaudio.fi )
I was thinking of leaving a plywood solid plank on the top and bottom so it looks like the speakers are carved out of a solid piece of wood. I hope you more or less get the idea....
I think that in this way I will not get the difference in tonal colour from the sides to the top.
I wanted to ask you a question: could you please translate the text in the picture where you can see the products he has used to finish the wood?
I have never worked plywood in this way and I don't really know what the best option will be....
The finish of the speakers looks very nice: matte and very natural.
I'll probably place an order for the products and try them on a small sample to evaluate the results and if they are positive I will apply the products to the cabinets.
Thanks very much for the feedback!
B
Yes, that is exactly the look I am looking for my speakers.
The only detail I am not so sure about is how the guy placed the veneer on the top and bottom and the speakers. It doesn't look bad, but it doesn't look as good as the Penaudio charisma speakers. ( www.penaudio.fi )
I was thinking of leaving a plywood solid plank on the top and bottom so it looks like the speakers are carved out of a solid piece of wood. I hope you more or less get the idea....
I think that in this way I will not get the difference in tonal colour from the sides to the top.
I wanted to ask you a question: could you please translate the text in the picture where you can see the products he has used to finish the wood?
I have never worked plywood in this way and I don't really know what the best option will be....
The finish of the speakers looks very nice: matte and very natural.
I'll probably place an order for the products and try them on a small sample to evaluate the results and if they are positive I will apply the products to the cabinets.
Thanks very much for the feedback!
B
This image name is in english 'top glueing' but I guess there must be also some kind 'tenon jointing' or similar. 
http://koti.aina.fi/helmi/kannen_liimaus.JPG
Maybe it does not look as good as commercial speakers, for reason!
I guess Charisma have some additional veneer on top!
Did you mean these pictures ?
http://koti.aina.fi/helmi/vahauksen_jalk.JPG
http://koti.aina.fi/helmi/vahauksen_jalk2.JPG
http://koti.aina.fi/helmi/liima_ja_vahat.JPG
Vaha is finnish and means wax in english.
Words from those OSMO COLOR cans:
LÄPIKUULTAVA means translucent in english.
I don't know what is right english word for PUUVAHA but I guess it woodwax.
KASVIÖLJY POHJAINEN means vegetable based oil or something
So that guy have been use OSMO COLOR woodwax.
http://koti.aina.fi/helmi/kannen_liimaus.JPG
Maybe it does not look as good as commercial speakers, for reason!
I guess Charisma have some additional veneer on top!
Did you mean these pictures ?
http://koti.aina.fi/helmi/vahauksen_jalk.JPG
http://koti.aina.fi/helmi/vahauksen_jalk2.JPG
http://koti.aina.fi/helmi/liima_ja_vahat.JPG
Vaha is finnish and means wax in english.
Words from those OSMO COLOR cans:
LÄPIKUULTAVA means translucent in english.
I don't know what is right english word for PUUVAHA but I guess it woodwax.
KASVIÖLJY POHJAINEN means vegetable based oil or something
So that guy have been use OSMO COLOR woodwax.
These are nice Finnish speakers too...
Made from (soap)stone
http://www.flinkstone.fi/hifi.html
Or how about speakers with 100% humidity and 120°C heat endurance for sauna?
Made from (soap)stone
http://www.flinkstone.fi/hifi.html
Or how about speakers with 100% humidity and 120°C heat endurance for sauna?
Attachments
1sc clones
To do the Proac clones you will need to midbass driver that is specially manufactured for Proac and not available to the public.
I have allways tried to be supportive to other members of the forum. The people that have received the 40 mb files for the Heil Loudspeaker that won the Ciare loudspeaker competition can give good faith of this.
However, with the 1sc crossover it is a different story. Not because I wouldn't like to share it in the forum, but because the person that gave it to me asked not to give it away on the internet. (and I gave him my word) There are many good diy loudspeakers around. The reason that I am buiding the 1scs is due to the fact that my amp was designed with the 1sc in mind and the combination is really magical in terms of synergy.
If you can't get hold of the drivers you could visit the Tony Gee website and have a look at the Proteus. It looks very interesting.
Wilslom audio (UK distributor of ScanSpeak) has also very nice kits (if that is what you are looking for).
I hope this didn't dissapoint you.
However, if you need any further help, please don't hesitate to send me an email and I will send you a list of all the research I have done on the internet so you can check all of the speakers I have evaluated building. I am sure that many of them are much, much better than the Proac 1sc and you will be able to build them for a similar cost the 1sc will be.
What I would advice you to do first is to research the internet looking for reviews on you amplifier, recommended system setups, what the manufacturer used to demo it at hi-fi shows, etc etc, so you can more or less have a rough idea of what will work with it in terms of synergy. Then you can try to find something that will work properly with your setup from all the links I will give you.
And please, if you have any doubt , do not hesitate to ask me, eh?
To do the Proac clones you will need to midbass driver that is specially manufactured for Proac and not available to the public.
I have allways tried to be supportive to other members of the forum. The people that have received the 40 mb files for the Heil Loudspeaker that won the Ciare loudspeaker competition can give good faith of this.
However, with the 1sc crossover it is a different story. Not because I wouldn't like to share it in the forum, but because the person that gave it to me asked not to give it away on the internet. (and I gave him my word) There are many good diy loudspeakers around. The reason that I am buiding the 1scs is due to the fact that my amp was designed with the 1sc in mind and the combination is really magical in terms of synergy.
If you can't get hold of the drivers you could visit the Tony Gee website and have a look at the Proteus. It looks very interesting.
Wilslom audio (UK distributor of ScanSpeak) has also very nice kits (if that is what you are looking for).
I hope this didn't dissapoint you.
However, if you need any further help, please don't hesitate to send me an email and I will send you a list of all the research I have done on the internet so you can check all of the speakers I have evaluated building. I am sure that many of them are much, much better than the Proac 1sc and you will be able to build them for a similar cost the 1sc will be.
What I would advice you to do first is to research the internet looking for reviews on you amplifier, recommended system setups, what the manufacturer used to demo it at hi-fi shows, etc etc, so you can more or less have a rough idea of what will work with it in terms of synergy. Then you can try to find something that will work properly with your setup from all the links I will give you.
And please, if you have any doubt , do not hesitate to ask me, eh?
I am also facing the same question about the port tuning. I am in the process of making a new cabinet for a pair of old Celestion. I would like to put the port in front and just wondering where can I get answers for my questions below:
1. If everything else stays the same, can I place the port location wherever I want? Such as moving from back to front baffle or moving a few inches away from the original position? I know a front port will be easier for speaker placement, but do I have to change the port length and dia?
2. The total length of the original port is 4 inches and with a 2" inside dia. I am trying to increase the baffle from 1/2" to 1 1/2", do I have to also increase the length of the port by 1 inch, so it will have the same inside length(3 1/2") as the original to stay in same tune? Is it only the inside length and dia of the port that matters or something else? I remember seeing somewhere there was this ported sub with a pipe sticking out of the box a foot or so.....wondering if there is any part of the port sticking out into the box?
Thanks in advance for answers and point of direction for info that I can look up.
Chengs
1. If everything else stays the same, can I place the port location wherever I want? Such as moving from back to front baffle or moving a few inches away from the original position? I know a front port will be easier for speaker placement, but do I have to change the port length and dia?
2. The total length of the original port is 4 inches and with a 2" inside dia. I am trying to increase the baffle from 1/2" to 1 1/2", do I have to also increase the length of the port by 1 inch, so it will have the same inside length(3 1/2") as the original to stay in same tune? Is it only the inside length and dia of the port that matters or something else? I remember seeing somewhere there was this ported sub with a pipe sticking out of the box a foot or so.....wondering if there is any part of the port sticking out into the box?
Thanks in advance for answers and point of direction for info that I can look up.
Chengs
The link for the 1SC clone is the following:
http://audioclone.free.fr/responseONEsc.html
I'm not sure if the bass driver is a custom unit.
Drew
http://audioclone.free.fr/responseONEsc.html
I'm not sure if the bass driver is a custom unit.
Drew
I am almost finished building cabinets based on the Penaudio Charisma. I'm much further along than what is shown in the photos and expect to have them finished by next week. Since this was my first stab at speaker construction I chose a kit to insure they'd actually sound good after all was said and done. The kit I chose was the North Creek Okara as they are one of the best small monitors I've heard under $2000. Since this is your first cabinet I recommend you avoid building your cabinets this way as it takes a lot of time, patience, and money - you WILL make some blunders. But, if you must here are some tips.
- Use Finnish Ply - much better quality than baltic birch
- Use a dark glue to match the adhesive used in Finnish birch - I used titebond and added anelyne dyes to get the appropriate color
- Make sure you use the proper saw blade as this stuff will splinter on crosscuts
- Come up with some form of registration so the laminations don't slip when glueing
- Buy very good clamps or build a clamping mechanism - the glue sets quickly and it is imperative the wood is clamped properly
1sc internal damping
Hi,
Could anyone let me know what does Proac use inside the 1sc to dampen the cabinet?
An internal photo would be really appreciated!
PD- These cabinets have really been a lot of work!!!
(I am not sure I would go again through the same
experience..... instead of using plywood and just
veneering on top!)
Hi,
Could anyone let me know what does Proac use inside the 1sc to dampen the cabinet?
An internal photo would be really appreciated!
PD- These cabinets have really been a lot of work!!!
(I am not sure I would go again through the same
experience..... instead of using plywood and just
veneering on top!)
Hi
I have the R1SC and very good they are too. I do go on about them but they are very good.
I have the exact dimensions taken from the cabinets if anyone wants them but it looks like most of you have.
As for damping it is the usual 5mm damping panels to the sides top and bottom – not the front or back and the inside is lined with 1” vitafoam. The stuff in my boxes is white but it is all much the same and you can get some from www.falcon-acoustics.co.uk for a couple of £ per sheet. It is simply wrapped single thickness around the inside with an extra piece behind the woofer to protect the XO which is attached to the back wall.
The http://audioclone.free.fr/responseONEsc.html site lists the dimensions which are accurate and the XO values are the same, as far as I can tell. Certainly the caps and resistors are the same so I think you can trust them. They have the same number of components too. The point is the Bass mid driver suggested is NOT the same.
The one illustrated uses a different driver than the original. However Seas do make another driver with the same cone material only on a round chassis, not the odd shape of the proac unit. I have a sneaking suspicion that this is actually the same drive unit. Lets face it if proac have such great success with the modified one Seas wouldn’t pass up the opportunity of selling a equally good one! Of course it couldn't be exactly the same though. The customisation I believe is the cone being put in the chassis of the old drive units which allow upgrades to be made and maintaining the standard appearance. Indeed I have seen it used in place of the custom unit in the future clone.
Matt
I have the R1SC and very good they are too. I do go on about them but they are very good.
I have the exact dimensions taken from the cabinets if anyone wants them but it looks like most of you have.
As for damping it is the usual 5mm damping panels to the sides top and bottom – not the front or back and the inside is lined with 1” vitafoam. The stuff in my boxes is white but it is all much the same and you can get some from www.falcon-acoustics.co.uk for a couple of £ per sheet. It is simply wrapped single thickness around the inside with an extra piece behind the woofer to protect the XO which is attached to the back wall.
The http://audioclone.free.fr/responseONEsc.html site lists the dimensions which are accurate and the XO values are the same, as far as I can tell. Certainly the caps and resistors are the same so I think you can trust them. They have the same number of components too. The point is the Bass mid driver suggested is NOT the same.
The one illustrated uses a different driver than the original. However Seas do make another driver with the same cone material only on a round chassis, not the odd shape of the proac unit. I have a sneaking suspicion that this is actually the same drive unit. Lets face it if proac have such great success with the modified one Seas wouldn’t pass up the opportunity of selling a equally good one! Of course it couldn't be exactly the same though. The customisation I believe is the cone being put in the chassis of the old drive units which allow upgrades to be made and maintaining the standard appearance. Indeed I have seen it used in place of the custom unit in the future clone.
Matt
internal photos and xover double check
Hi Matt,
I am writing you in relation to the 1sc post you have recently posted on the diyaudio.com webiste.
I live in london, and to tell the truth, the 1sc clones are going to cost me roughly the same as the commercial speakers themselves.
The reason for wanting to clone them is simple: I like a lot how they sound, but I don't like how they look, so what I am trying to achieve is the same sonic performance in a much nicer package....
I know that there are many diy speakers around that seem to be "better", or that I least use more expensive drivers, but I already know that the 1scs will work well with my sugden amp, and I prefer to play it safe with speakers, since as you already know are very system dependant.
(I tried the future 05 and the response d15 with considerably worse results that the 1sc)
The french audioclone site doesn't inspire me much confidence, to tell you the truth, since their Proac Future 05 or Response 2.5 clones bear no resemblance to the original Proac crossovers.
I recently found a person online who provided me with the original (?) Proac crossovers.
I haven't yet ordered the components, since I wanted to check their values with someone else before posting the order.
They are quite expensive: Hovland musicaps, mills resistors and Alpha-Core air core foil inductors. The crossover components alone sum up around £300, excluding internal cabling and binding posts (WBT).
According to this person, he upgraded his 1scs with these components and he states that the rise in performance of the speaker was amazing. Crossover design and components sum up to 80% of a speaker performance, so I guess it is more than worth it going with good quality components.
Apparently the Proacs use the cheapest crossover components available, so I am very excited of the idea of having an even better loudspeaker than what I have listened to at hifi shops....
Now, coming again to the crossover: the crossover in the french audioclone site is quite accurate (90%), but there are no components on the positive side. The electricity goes directly from the + in the amp to the + in the speaker, and only has the caps and resistors in the negative side of the crossover.
Since you already know the insides of your speakers, could you check this for me?
(I would really appreciate it)
I would also appreciate it if you could email me the dimensions of the port and its precise location on the back baffle, as well as the length of the port tube. (THANKS!!!!)
And since we are already at it: could you email me some pics of the speakers from the inside so I clearly know what and how to damp the speakers inside?
If you have any other tips, like variable wall thickness, precise values for croover components, etc etc etc, I would also appreciate it a lot ,,,,,
And of course, once I finish the speakers, you are more than wellcome to come by and listen to them. That way you can allways consider if it will be worth for you to upgrade the crossover components at a later stage....
You can bring the records you already know and I will take care of the wine or the beer (which is the best system upgrade I have ever found: cables don't even come close!!)
Thanks a lot for the help!!!
Best regards,
B
Hi Matt,
I am writing you in relation to the 1sc post you have recently posted on the diyaudio.com webiste.
I live in london, and to tell the truth, the 1sc clones are going to cost me roughly the same as the commercial speakers themselves.
The reason for wanting to clone them is simple: I like a lot how they sound, but I don't like how they look, so what I am trying to achieve is the same sonic performance in a much nicer package....
I know that there are many diy speakers around that seem to be "better", or that I least use more expensive drivers, but I already know that the 1scs will work well with my sugden amp, and I prefer to play it safe with speakers, since as you already know are very system dependant.
(I tried the future 05 and the response d15 with considerably worse results that the 1sc)
The french audioclone site doesn't inspire me much confidence, to tell you the truth, since their Proac Future 05 or Response 2.5 clones bear no resemblance to the original Proac crossovers.
I recently found a person online who provided me with the original (?) Proac crossovers.
I haven't yet ordered the components, since I wanted to check their values with someone else before posting the order.
They are quite expensive: Hovland musicaps, mills resistors and Alpha-Core air core foil inductors. The crossover components alone sum up around £300, excluding internal cabling and binding posts (WBT).
According to this person, he upgraded his 1scs with these components and he states that the rise in performance of the speaker was amazing. Crossover design and components sum up to 80% of a speaker performance, so I guess it is more than worth it going with good quality components.
Apparently the Proacs use the cheapest crossover components available, so I am very excited of the idea of having an even better loudspeaker than what I have listened to at hifi shops....
Now, coming again to the crossover: the crossover in the french audioclone site is quite accurate (90%), but there are no components on the positive side. The electricity goes directly from the + in the amp to the + in the speaker, and only has the caps and resistors in the negative side of the crossover.
Since you already know the insides of your speakers, could you check this for me?
(I would really appreciate it)
I would also appreciate it if you could email me the dimensions of the port and its precise location on the back baffle, as well as the length of the port tube. (THANKS!!!!)
And since we are already at it: could you email me some pics of the speakers from the inside so I clearly know what and how to damp the speakers inside?
If you have any other tips, like variable wall thickness, precise values for croover components, etc etc etc, I would also appreciate it a lot ,,,,,
And of course, once I finish the speakers, you are more than wellcome to come by and listen to them. That way you can allways consider if it will be worth for you to upgrade the crossover components at a later stage....
You can bring the records you already know and I will take care of the wine or the beer (which is the best system upgrade I have ever found: cables don't even come close!!)
Thanks a lot for the help!!!
Best regards,
B
Respone One SC Clone
I have been toying with the idea of building the response one sc clone at http://audioclone.free.fr/responseONEsc.html. I have read in other threads in this forum that the mid/woofer driver in this speaker may actually be the SEAS T14RCY. This conflicts with the information on that website which indicates that the driver is actually SEAS W14CY-001. As this driver has a magnesium cone, and the driver in the response one looks clear, this may be incorrect. Can anyone shed any light on this?
I have been toying with the idea of building the response one sc clone at http://audioclone.free.fr/responseONEsc.html. I have read in other threads in this forum that the mid/woofer driver in this speaker may actually be the SEAS T14RCY. This conflicts with the information on that website which indicates that the driver is actually SEAS W14CY-001. As this driver has a magnesium cone, and the driver in the response one looks clear, this may be incorrect. Can anyone shed any light on this?
http://audioclone.free.fr/responseONEsc.html
this link works.
Looks like the T14 fitted with a phaseplug.
sreten.
this link works.
Looks like the T14 fitted with a phaseplug.
sreten.- Status
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