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Old 12th November 2003, 07:19 AM   #1
michael is offline michael  Australia
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Default Seas Standard line? Peerless HDS?

Okay, we have all heard how amazing the seas excel line of woofers are but has anyone had any experience with the much more affordable "standard line".
The other range of drivers i have in mind are the Peerless HDS line, more speciffically the 8" HDS.

I would like to build a pair of 2way floorstanders preferably with 8" drivers. can anyone help me out.
Also what is a good tweeter available in Australia for under $100AUS. and where can i get it.
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Old 12th November 2003, 01:26 PM   #2
rabbitz is offline rabbitz  Australia
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A 2-way using the Peerless 8" HDS (850490) is going to have to crossover quite low. If think it's been designed more for a woofer in a 3-way. There's been plenty of discussions on pros and cons for 8" 2-ways.

IMO you're better off with the 6 1/2" either HDS 850594? or the CSX 850122.

Have used the CSX in a 2-way floorstander and is an amazing driver. Also used the HDS, but in the 5". A good tweeter which I've used with the HDS is the Peerless 810653 which was designed to compliment the HDS drivers. At A$53.50 from http://www.advanceae.com.au a good buy. I have used the XLS version of 8" HDS (830491) for bass output only in a small sub.

For Peerless PDF's see www.wescomponents.com.
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Old 12th November 2003, 01:35 PM   #3
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Default Re: Seas Standard line? Peerless HDS?

Quote:
Originally posted by michael
Okay, we have all heard how amazing the seas excel line of woofers are but has anyone had any experience with the much more affordable "standard line".
The other range of drivers i have in mind are the Peerless HDS line, more speciffically the 8" HDS.

I would like to build a pair of 2way floorstanders preferably with 8" drivers. can anyone help me out.
Also what is a good tweeter available in Australia for under $100AUS. and where can i get it.

If you are going to make a pure bass construction in addition, no standard line or Excel (As far as I know) is able to reconstruct the bass how it is ment to be.
You'll get quite close, if you choose a 10" or 12" Peerless XLS, or the extreme Brahma series. The thing is the bowed BL parameters, which is the main issue to overcome. All bass speakers have a bowed BL parameter, which means the surround of a speaker will gradually hold back the membrane more and more at higher amplitude. This mechanism will compress the peaks in a bass signal and then compress the transient reproduction, thus not credible reproduction.

In a 2-way construction you might get help making a Linqwitz-Greiner filter which moves the speakers resonance frequency to a lower frequency, thus quite straight frequency responce, inkcuding good pulse responce, down to the 30 - 40 Hz.

The Peerless XLS speaker is not recommended for 2-way systems.

Br.
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Old 12th November 2003, 02:46 PM   #4
michael is offline michael  Australia
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the reason i wanted to use the HDS 8" is because i wanted to have impressive bass response from a 2way floorstander. Could i cross the woofer at 2000Hz to a seas tweeter (T27TFFC), i have chosen this tweeter due to low resonance and cost and also a fabric dome. i think that this tweeter will be able to be crossed at around 1.8 or 2KHz, i think the HDS 8 crossed here or even ever so slighty below due to a bump at 1.5 woul match up well.
any and all comments are more than welcome
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Old 12th November 2003, 02:52 PM   #5
gary f is offline gary f  Canada
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You can have quite good bass response with a 6.5 incher

Ex: if you use a Seas standard L18RNX/P alu cone, with long throw, you can get a f3 of45hz in 16l vented enclosure

Drawback, more crossover parts to control alu cone resonance..

And it look good...

F
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Old 12th November 2003, 03:16 PM   #6
gary f is offline gary f  Canada
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what do you mean by "impressive bass" anyway

Sure, you can't make teh house shake with a 6.5 in woof.
But some of them have pretty good "kick" anyway. But with a 8 in. I think you can build a good 2 way, but you loose in finesse what you gain in bass.
TIME TO CHOOSE

F
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Old 12th November 2003, 03:18 PM   #7
rabbitz is offline rabbitz  Australia
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Default Peerless 850122

You can get F3=34Hz with the 850122 6 1/2" CSX which betters the 850490 8" HDS (with WinISD).

There's 2 up for grabs on eBay (Aus), maybe a bargain.
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Old 12th November 2003, 04:45 PM   #8
gary f is offline gary f  Canada
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oh yeah, by the way, I have used the Seas 27TFFC in two design and i don't think they handle low crossover point so well. It is true that a lot of people have used them with low crossover pts like 1800 Hz or 2000hz. So i did the same thing but the sound was getting harsh at medium/high volume levels, even with steeps slopes (3rd order). I think this tweeter can handle the power OK but it is limited in linear excursion (+-0.25mm is NOT enough). I suggest trying a tweeter with more Xmax.

F
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Old 12th November 2003, 04:47 PM   #9
Zaph is offline Zaph  United States
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Default Re: Seas Standard line? Peerless HDS?

Quote:
Originally posted by michael
Okay, we have all heard how amazing the seas excel line of woofers are but has anyone had any experience with the much more affordable "standard line".
The other range of drivers i have in mind are the Peerless HDS line, more speciffically the 8" HDS.

I would like to build a pair of 2way floorstanders preferably with 8" drivers. can anyone help me out.
Also what is a good tweeter available in Australia for under $100AUS. and where can i get it.
I have some experience with Seas standard line drivers. Look to their older poly series for 8" drivers that might work well in a 2-way system. P21RFX/P or P21REX comes to mind.

I'm currently working on a 3-way using the new L22RN4XP. It has decent Xmax for an 8", and an F3 of about 33hz in a vented 1 cu ft box. (using actual measured driver T/S params) Seas' new L-series drivers sound incredible and measure up well to their Excel series, IMHO. I'm sure the distortion in the Excels might be a bit lower but the real difference in these drivers is inductance. The L22RN4XP could never be used in a 2-way because it's inductance is around 2.5 mH and the breakup node is at 4khz. In a 3-way though, it kicks ***.

L22RN4XP Sample 1 Vas Delta Compliance Method
Fs: 23.5600 Hertz
Qts: 0.2823
Qes: 0.3075
Qms: 3.4484
Vas: 62.0034 litres
Re: 5.8281 ohms
Le: 2.4336 mH
SPL: 86.04 dB 1w/1m
BL: 11.53 Tesla meters

Click the image to open in full size.

Infinite baffle measurements:
25TFFC onaxis
25TFFC 30 deg off axis
L12RCYP onaxis
L22RN4XP onaxis
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Old 12th November 2003, 05:38 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by gary f
You can have quite good bass response with a 6.5 incher

Ex: if you use a Seas standard L18RNX/P alu cone, with long throw, you can get a f3 of45hz in 16l vented enclosure

Drawback, more crossover parts to control alu cone resonance..

And it look good...

F
The main problem by using small bass drivers is the loss of required air load in order to achieve a correct pulse response at very low frequencies. It's no problem making small enclosures playing deeeeep and loud with a vented system, but the drawback is, in addition to quite complex crossover design, that the bass gain is achieved at a very narrow frequency range only, not at pulses, or transients if you like. A pulse will also make a "BOOOOOM" in the vent - not a desirable sound.

That's the reason why speakers armed with 15" og 18" drivers sound very dynamic and realistic, in comparison to a dull 8" or 6,5" driver.

Br.
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