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Old 23rd December 2012, 12:05 AM   #1
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Question Speakers For Heavy Metal ? What Matters ?

Well, out of nowhere comes a commission to build a pair of custom speakers for an old client (for his son, actually).

The end user plays mostly Metal and Hi Energy Rock stuff in a medium sized room with reasonable acoustics. He already has an ART SLA2 amplifier with plenty of poke and a decent Denon CD player with a Cambridge outboard DAC, so he is not using rubbish.

He plays Metallica, Green Day, Rammstein, Sum 41, Bring Me The Horizon, Alesana, Enter Shikari, MyChem and similar.

I don't mind this music myself but it is not something I have much experience of. Some of it seems quite well recorded, clean and powerful (mostly) but with generally limited dynamic range.

So, can anyone enlighten me about what are the do's and dont's for a system dedicated to heavy music?
All of my previous designs have aimed for flat, low distortion, low stored energy responses (not all of them were successful ) and I guess that applies here too. His father has old B&W 801's which don't do it for the son at all, even though they are quite nice in their own way. No, he wants something that kicks a#se. He liked a pair of PAudio BM15CX38's I have in proto boxes but the budget doesn't go anywhere near them, and they don't have enough bass in boxes that would fit in his room.

So, looking at this thread:

Eminence Coaxial Towers

what are anybody's thoughts on a similar system for my client?
Drivers and Xovers budget is about AU$1200.

Any comments, opinions or experience would be gratefully received.

TIA
blakkparade
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Old 23rd December 2012, 12:42 AM   #2
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I am a complete noob at electronic but I play and mix mostly metal music , and one thing I m sure of is they have a lot going on in mid-low range section (around maybe 100 hz to near 500 hz ) so keep an eye in that area , and as metalheads like punchy sound (specially drums) and most of the songs have heavy drums , I m not sure but you may be better look at a heavy stuffed cabs .
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Old 23rd December 2012, 12:49 AM   #3
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Thanks for the input Ahmad_tbp!

I will look at the sealed options for the Eminence drivers. It seems to me that 'kick' in the bass is more important than extension - there doesn't seem to be all that much below about 50 Hz in what I have heard, and if he wants big SPL down there he will want a sub anyway.

Food 4 thought.

Kind regards,
blakktop
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Old 23rd December 2012, 12:56 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by blakkshepeaudio View Post
Thanks for the input Ahmad_tbp!

I will look at the sealed options for the Eminence drivers. It seems to me that 'kick' in the bass is more important than extension - there doesn't seem to be all that much below about 50 Hz in what I have heard, and if he wants big SPL down there he will want a sub anyway.

Food 4 thought.

Kind regards,
blakktop
exactly , because there s a war between tones and harmonies in low-mid range , in mixing stage they usually roll off below 40hz cuz , u mostly have a lots of notes just above that area u don want a lot goin on below that

Regards

Edit : I didn't see a lot of persons using sub for listening heavy stuffs
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Old 23rd December 2012, 12:58 AM   #5
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Nope, you don't need to go that low for Metal, an F3 of 45-50 Hz will be more than adequate. The Eminence project looks quite fun, what are you planning to get for the CD?
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Old 23rd December 2012, 01:57 AM   #6
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Nope, you don't need to go that low for Metal, an F3 of 45-50 Hz will be more than adequate. The Eminence project looks quite fun, what are you planning to get for the CD?
Thanks for your input!

I hadn't thought too much about the CD until now. I could probably just use the Eminence ASD1001S which is about AU$55.

I would be happy to hear from anyone downunder who could suggest a locally available alternative - there is room in the budget for a better tweeter if the cost is justified.

Rgds,
blakkbelly
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Old 23rd December 2012, 02:29 AM   #7
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You'll want something proaudio based to get the impact and dynamics us metalheads like. I would be looking at some of the SEOS12 designs floating around with eminence delta 12 mids.

Home page DIY Sound Group has the stuff. Should run about $225-315 per side plus shipping...that includes cabinets, drivers, and do parts.
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Old 23rd December 2012, 02:45 AM   #8
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We have a limited range of drivers to choose from, even in pro-Audio stuff. Shipping cabinets from O/S is far too expensive--Tyranny of Distance and all that.
I asked a similar question lat year but the garage speakers for my mate were for Techno so much more low bass needed ( still a work in progress tho)
Have you thought about a pair of the cheap Peerless 10 inch in a critical Q sealed box ( or even a high Q sealed box for minimum size) for the bass, ebay at $99- each at the moment crossed over a little higher to give plenty of punch using something like the Eminence 8A as the mid

http://www.parts-express.com/pdf/290-401s.pdf

If you crossed at 3500/5 k then almost any dome or small cone tweeter would probably work, the eminence CD ( tweeter) seems to roll-off early and is maybe a little overpowering in a normal room ( not had much to do with compression drivers tho)
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Last edited by Moondog55; 23rd December 2012 at 02:58 AM. Reason: Added brackets so sentence made more sense
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Old 23rd December 2012, 07:22 AM   #9
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Default In my experience...

...some metal can be extremely complicated and have a lot going on at one point in time, further complicated with fast impulse times required for response accuracy.

Topped off with a limited dynamic range if recorded poorly, you may want to utilize some BBC dip to keep them from sounding forward.

I personally would look at 3-way designs, as these more limited ranges of frequencies can be easier on drivers and less fatiguing to the ear. Keep the drivers comfortable, and use lighter-mass/higher-Bl style drivers like in prosound or even home-hifi dynamic drivers.

Sizes- for output, a 10" or 12" is likely for the woofer, coupled with some 'slam' in the 70 Hz range to feel the gut-punching. Agreed 40Hz is really all you need. 5-6" midbass, and maybe a planar or sensitive dome.

A couple years ago, I embarked on my 'reference' set, that would play all well, from classical to metal. I wound up with a lower sensitivity design using home-drivers and use a Crown amp to rock out. Consisted of a subwoofer driver aluminum cone of 8" (clean to past 800Hz), a 2" dome midrange with no F/F, and a planar tweeter. The higher-Bl drive on the subwoofer, as well as the stiff aluminum cone provide accurate and swift impulses in the bass without getting muddy or having overhang, and the dome and planar are low-Mms and fast impulse responding as well. It works great for my usage and application.

There are many ways to accomplish this task you're trekking toward, so good luck and blastbeats,
Wolf
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Old 23rd December 2012, 07:29 AM   #10
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OH ? I took it for granted that a good 3-way was needed
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