Speakers For Heavy Metal ? What Matters ?

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S

sreten

R.I.P.
Joined 2003
Hi,

I can't be arsed to read all of this thread as its full of PA drivers,
which are not suited to home hifi if you analyse the problem well.
(That is why they are PA drivers and not home hifi drivers.)

In real life with real hifi systems it is a question of hifi balance.

You won't disappoint any metal fan by building these for them :
https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/tarkus

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.


Bang for buck with about 100 hifi watts you can't do better.
Well you can, but for a lot more, a great value design.
(The bass will cream PA stuff, and that matters a lot.)

rgds, sreten.
 
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T

tinitus

Ex-Moderator R.I.P.
Joined 2005
more drivers, more sound pressure

but do you need it in a small room

oh, btw, you will need speakers that will handle 150watt amp
but the Tarkus suggested will probably still do fine with 60watt

or at least as long as your ears are ok
may not last so long
 
chris661

chris661

Member
Joined 2008
Saturnus said:
Yeah but guitars don't go that low even tuned down to C# (3 half notes down) as Black Sabbath and most doom and much death metal is. That's still only a 69.30Hz fundamental frequency. Almost no information at the fundamental anyways. Most is in harmonic distortion.
Click to expand...

Okay, and then bass guitar is an octave below that. 34.65Hz fundamental.

Slipknot is often in drop B (bass guitar fundamental of 31Hz).
 
Saturnus

Saturnus

Member
Joined 2005
chris661 said:
Slipknot is often in drop B (bass guitar fundamental of 31Hz).
Click to expand...

Probably not a drop B but a baritone guitar instead which match a standard 5 string bass guitar.

Remember that there is (virtually) no information at the fundamental frequency. Lowest frequency that matters is the first harmonics at one octave above the fundamental.
 
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Moondog55

Moondog55

diyAudio Member
Joined 2007
Well the "Tarkus" uses the Peerless woofer I suggested
Personally I think it needs 2 of those and then for space and volume reasons it would then need to be sealed, but the F3/F10 for those woofers sealed is still respectable
Take note mate that I simply love spending other peoples money and that I consider 8 inches a reasonable size for a midrange even if the sweet spot is smaller
 
chris661

chris661

Member
Joined 2008
Saturnus said:
Not really. Drop B is one octave above the standard B of a 5 string bass guitar.
Click to expand...

No, it isn't.

Drop B is a tuning where B is the lowest string, but the other 3 are F#, B, and E. Note that there are two strings (1st and 3rd) are an octave apart: this is a drop tuning.

A 5-string bass is tuned B-E-A-D-G, simply the standard bass tuning, plus the B string, 5 semitones down from the low E.

5-string basses and 4-string tuned to drop-B have the same lowest frequency.
 
Moondog55

Moondog55

diyAudio Member
Joined 2007
Are Def Leppard/ Poison/Kings of the Sun considered as metal bands these days?
I have some of the early vinyl and personally I prefer to cross very low to a big midrange for that particular type of music
The fact that the actually recordings contain distorted guitar is no excuse for distortion in the reproduction and a couple of my recording do have some very deep bass in parts
 
S

sreten

R.I.P.
Joined 2003
Saturnus said:
We're talking 2 completely different things. I'm talking drop B guitar tuning vs. standard baritone guitar tuning also at the same B.

I did not touch on bass guitar tunings at all except noting that a baritone guitar match a 5 string bass as the the highest string on the 5 string bass in standard tuning is also a B just at on a 4 string bass in standard tuning. This highest string is at the same frequency as the low B on a drop B guitar tuning or a standard tuning baritone.

Either way, fundamental frequency matters little and generally there is very very little information in most metal music below about 50-60hz so good performance down to that is required. Also preferably with more headroom and better dynamics than smaller heavy membraned hi-fi drivers can manage at those frequencies.
Click to expand...

Hi, No. Your talking about the wrong thing out of context, rgds, sreten.
 
K

kenpeter

Member
Joined 2007
My guitar is usually drop tuned to baritone, AEADGB |7|5|5|5|4|
Throw out little string (My gift to Feral, as he breaks his constantly)
Shift every string down away from me by 1 position.
.065 bass string for low A (because .058 from 7 string set just flops around)

And abuse an octave drop effect for actual bass lines.
Thus I have a potential fundamental at 27.5Hz, not often used...

I built 1955RE plan Karlson K15 cab (Sigma Pro 18A2 barely shoehorn'd).
Think a Neodymium 15 would have worked out a little better than my 18.
Was way punchier back when it only had the undersized DeltaPro 12...
Took a good thing (and it was amazing!) too far and lost the magic.

----

You might look into Beta12-LTA. Maybe with tweeter like Hammer Dynamics.
A little Xmax limited, but you won't need to navigate any crossings that are
within the vocal range.
 
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chris661

chris661

Member
Joined 2008
Moondog55 said:
Are Def Leppard/ Poison/Kings of the Sun considered as metal bands these days?
I have some of the early vinyl and personally I prefer to cross very low to a big midrange for that particular type of music
The fact that the actually recordings contain distorted guitar is no excuse for distortion in the reproduction and a couple of my recording do have some very deep bass in parts
Click to expand...

Hi,

Not sure what the OP would consider heavy metal, but I'd expect these to be somewhere near.
Avenged Sevenfold - Buried Alive - YouTube *
Slipknot - Left Behind - YouTube

*The start isn't particularly "heavy", but it gets going by the end. I rather like this track - a rather good test, IMHO, of the sheer oomph of a system. Also check out "Nightmare", by the same artist.

There's also the usual Marilyn Manson etc.

Chris
 
A

Andrew Eckhardt

Member
Joined 2005
Moondog you're on to the program for sure. Lot's of 5 string bass and even frequency division in heavy music. The idea that the stringed instrument fundamental doesn't exist results only from the multitude of existing systems that still can't do it for the fattest strings (even instrument amp/speakers), and all genres have synth in it these days. Once you run electronically processed guitar and bass straight into the board without going through speakers that have an Fs of 100 and 40Hz respectively, you're gonna have fundamental. You have to cover flat reproduction to 30 Hz or a lot of tracks will have something completely missing, lower is better if you have room, and the mid might need to go below 150 Hz or so for impressive smack from snare drums and small toms at very high power while not garbling everything further up to 2K. An "affordable quality" 8" midrange, better for dispersion, almost can't do it without a 12" midbass between it and the woofer. The objective is high power output without distortion, so you practically need pro sound drivers while treating them like you would hi-fi drivers, or you're not going to get it. To do a really great job you need pro sound drivers with hi-fi features like precision casting, machining, and assembly, effective cone and suspension treatment, shorting rings everywhere.. gets Very expensive.
 
S

sreten

R.I.P.
Joined 2003
kenpeter said:
My guitar is usually drop tuned AEADGB |7|5|5|5|4|
Throw out little string (My gift to Feral, as he breaks his constantly)
Shift every string away from me by 1 position.
.065 bass string for low A (because .058 from 7 string set just flops around)

And abuse an octave drop effect for actual bass lines.
Thus I have a potential fundamental at 27.5Hz

I use a 1955RE plan Karlson K15 cab (Sigma Pro 18A2 barely shoehorn'd in).
Think a Neodymium 15 would have worked out a little better...
Click to expand...

Hi,

Well good luck with that, low B is inaudible on most hifi's, and impossible
live, why I switched back to standard E and dropped D for the E string.

Low A whist being 27.5Hz is pretty useless in most circumstances,
your only going to annoy a lot the bass player your ******* off.

Stepping on other peoples feet is not a good idea, unless its
unison stuff, if it it isn't, I for one wouldn't be interested.

rgds, sreten.
 
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