Hi,
according to you, what would be the criteria for a speaker to render very "punchy" bass (not the extreme low frequencies, but more like 100Hz), something that really punches you at every impact ?
Something you can feel in your chest (like the percussions in Cherry Bomb or Hurt So Good from John Cougar Mellencamp).
The fact is, I am using B&W 684 right now cause I like their highs and mids (not tiring) and unfortunately, I feel like the lack of Impact.
They are installed in a rectangular 14m2 room(my desk), positioned on the shortest side and can hardly be moved.
So, I am wondering if I could find commercial or DIY speakers that will render that sound I like (my 12" Focal Utopia 33VX subwoofer doesn't give the impact, only very low frequency like it's good for home cinema).
Thanks for your replies.
according to you, what would be the criteria for a speaker to render very "punchy" bass (not the extreme low frequencies, but more like 100Hz), something that really punches you at every impact ?
Something you can feel in your chest (like the percussions in Cherry Bomb or Hurt So Good from John Cougar Mellencamp).
The fact is, I am using B&W 684 right now cause I like their highs and mids (not tiring) and unfortunately, I feel like the lack of Impact.
They are installed in a rectangular 14m2 room(my desk), positioned on the shortest side and can hardly be moved.
So, I am wondering if I could find commercial or DIY speakers that will render that sound I like (my 12" Focal Utopia 33VX subwoofer doesn't give the impact, only very low frequency like it's good for home cinema).
Thanks for your replies.
I feel like the lack of Impact.
maybe you need better.... or different amps
Im certain those monster Krell amps in vendor's bazaar will cure that...but less will do
and then he will soon be back asking how do i get rid of that....
basicly it 'could' be a room related problem, yes
room EQ ?
A digital EQ.
basicly it 'could' be a room related problem, yes
room EQ ?
The fact is, I am using B&W 684 right now cause I like their highs and mids (not tiring) and unfortunately, I feel like the lack of Impact.
now that I have checked the B&W 684 I can fully understand why they don't give you the chest punch
man, its a 2.5way with 6" woofers
they are not designed to play loud at all, sorry
you may have a chance with two subs crossed high about 100-120hz, and main speakers crossed with steep 24db 150hz highpass
my guess is the subs should be big 18" pro woofers, and not 'ordinary' subwoofer stuff
but please, don't crack up the house
When a bass note hits hard to make you feel the impact, it'd be a wide band signal -- a transient response covering low to high frequencies, and all of them are excited simultaneously.
(If there's only bass, then you'd hear a soft and woolly sound, not 'punchy' at all.)
So, reasonably flat response with wide enough band and coherence are all important - to give you a fast rise of all frequencies at the same time.
Therefore, I have a feeling that a good single driver fullrange (small) system usually gives better punch than mulitway speakers in equivalent size, when playing within moderate SPL.
Playing loud, single driver speaker runs out of headroom earlier, then multiway takes the lead. You have to be careful in the xover and overall integration to get that coherence back.
(If there's only bass, then you'd hear a soft and woolly sound, not 'punchy' at all.)
So, reasonably flat response with wide enough band and coherence are all important - to give you a fast rise of all frequencies at the same time.
Therefore, I have a feeling that a good single driver fullrange (small) system usually gives better punch than mulitway speakers in equivalent size, when playing within moderate SPL.
Playing loud, single driver speaker runs out of headroom earlier, then multiway takes the lead. You have to be careful in the xover and overall integration to get that coherence back.
Hi Batam,
I think CLS’s comments above are very much worth considering.
I would also suggest for you to read chapter on Sound Quality – Page 4 in:
http://www.bodziosoftware.com.au/Home_Theatre_Conclusions.pdf
Best Regards,
Bohdan
I think CLS’s comments above are very much worth considering.
I would also suggest for you to read chapter on Sound Quality – Page 4 in:
http://www.bodziosoftware.com.au/Home_Theatre_Conclusions.pdf
Best Regards,
Bohdan
Can you find someone to measure the room response?
Bass cancellation can be as high as 10db down which requires 10x power to get it back..
I had this problem in my room and fixed it with Many Bass Traps and amplifiers clearly work less hard now and response is flat as measured with Cal Mic and software..
EQ is easier but will change overall charater unless there's a real neutral sounding unit out there..
Speakers all have own punch level as well , Obviously..
Regards, Joel
Bass cancellation can be as high as 10db down which requires 10x power to get it back..
I had this problem in my room and fixed it with Many Bass Traps and amplifiers clearly work less hard now and response is flat as measured with Cal Mic and software..
EQ is easier but will change overall charater unless there's a real neutral sounding unit out there..
Speakers all have own punch level as well , Obviously..
Regards, Joel
Hi,
thank you all for that lot of answers.
I do have a DEQ2496 that might help correcting room acoustic a bit. I've already used it but I didn't get good results.
Yes, the BW 684 have poor little woofers, that's the reason why I added a 12" sub. I tried cutting it at 180Hz (the amp's filter can't cut higher).
I've never listened to fullrange drivers, and have no occasion right now to do so.
It seems quite difficult to obtain punch, 2 x 18" woofers will fill my whole room so that's not a solution for me. Especially if I don't want to divorce .
In my car, I only have 13cm woofers and it is really punchy. The whole sound is not that good, but bass is punchy. I like listening to rock music in my car better than in my room. The latter is very good for jazz vocals.
Maybe there is no easy solution.
@CLS : Do you have Fullrange speakers ? Do they give you basses like it is kicking you on your chest ?
thank you all for that lot of answers.
I do have a DEQ2496 that might help correcting room acoustic a bit. I've already used it but I didn't get good results.
Yes, the BW 684 have poor little woofers, that's the reason why I added a 12" sub. I tried cutting it at 180Hz (the amp's filter can't cut higher).
I've never listened to fullrange drivers, and have no occasion right now to do so.
It seems quite difficult to obtain punch, 2 x 18" woofers will fill my whole room so that's not a solution for me. Especially if I don't want to divorce .
In my car, I only have 13cm woofers and it is really punchy. The whole sound is not that good, but bass is punchy. I like listening to rock music in my car better than in my room. The latter is very good for jazz vocals.
Maybe there is no easy solution.
@CLS : Do you have Fullrange speakers ? Do they give you basses like it is kicking you on your chest ?
The whole sound is not that good, but bass is punchy.
like I said..... when you have it you may not like it that much at all
the reason a small woofer is punchy in your car is because you are literally sitting inside the speaker and is most likely high Q with peaked midbass and no lows
but phase is also exstremely important which correlates to what CLS is saying when he experiences even small fullrange drivers having good 'puch'
but I doubt you will experience the same as being 'punchy' at all
but basicly your problem could well be too little BSC, or none either due to the design, or room related BSC is the lower midrange giving voices 'corpus'
or in other words, you have fallen into a common 'audiophile trap'
funny, but isn't the french word for a woofer.... Boomer ?
LoL, that's right. It's sometime called boomer.
What is BSC ?
I can't qualify myself as Audiophile, I like when things are explainable et rational. For me, most Audiophile people don't need to understand anything, but they can "Hear".
What I mean is... I like when music makes me want to move my feet or when it punches so hard that I can't breath (never happened yet) BUT I don't mean listening at very high level. No matter if it is with Nautilus, Utopia or Yamaha speakers.
So finally, no real solution I guess ? No reasonnably sized speaker will be able to give me what I am looking for. Except in the car but... I am not living in my car...
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