I want to know how to make a multi way speaker do the following if possible, and an explanation of how:
- 1.) increase the perceived depth of the stereo image even greater than what is already contained on a recording.
- 2.) greater stereo image height
- 3.) make it sound very pleasing and appealing but not in an obvious way. So adding midrange warmth will be too obvious in the long term. I have a feeling that most high end speakers do this because how often do you go to a concert and remark on the imaging or clarity or warmth? These characteristics are very much limited to speakers, not real live musical instruments.
Hi,
*1: Add 2 (mono-summed works well too)) >= 42 mS(15m) signal delayed Bessel arrays= Best as phase is slightly 'scrambled, 5-6 element arrays= good enough) visually in a straight line behind(or use a wider azimuth) the main speakers(or simpler DBA:s) wall mounted adjusted to a level near JND, i.e. at or bit higher depending on source material. FR slope = 'Pink' ~3 dB/octave: BW~60-800Hz.
*2: W-W--MM-- T-T-T-T-T--MM W--W Floor to ceiling length, W XO'd over 250 Hz, T-T-T-T-T Bessel or Bessel arrays in 'Edeko' configuration.
*3: No comment as at this Q.='imaging or clarity or warmth?' are here bunched together and would take a lot of thread space to tear apart.
b
*1: Add 2 (mono-summed works well too)) >= 42 mS(15m) signal delayed Bessel arrays= Best as phase is slightly 'scrambled, 5-6 element arrays= good enough) visually in a straight line behind(or use a wider azimuth) the main speakers(or simpler DBA:s) wall mounted adjusted to a level near JND, i.e. at or bit higher depending on source material. FR slope = 'Pink' ~3 dB/octave: BW~60-800Hz.
*2: W-W--MM-- T-T-T-T-T--MM W--W Floor to ceiling length, W XO'd over 250 Hz, T-T-T-T-T Bessel or Bessel arrays in 'Edeko' configuration.
*3: No comment as at this Q.='imaging or clarity or warmth?' are here bunched together and would take a lot of thread space to tear apart.
b
For greater distance/depth perception a low ratio of direct vs reverberant sound is necessary. A dipole placed well away from the front wall could be an option there. Also, rolling of the highs above about 8 kHz will enhance distance perception by simulating the high-frequency air absorption which becomes significant at larger distances, but is often not captured in the recording.
Height is difficult since height perception relies mostly on HRTFs. Again, modifying the frequency response to simulate the appropriate HRTF might help.
Your third point will be difficult. You will have to avoid early reflections which do not come from a lateral angle since they will colour the sound. The direct/reverberant ratio should neither be too high nor too low (about -5 dB would be ideal). But that depends on the room and listening distance as well. Lastly, the speaker should have a relatively neutral frequency response and balanced, smooth power response without obvious rises. An excess of energy around 4 kHz, where our hearing is most sensitive, is also something to avoid.
As I stated in your other topic, I strongly encourage you to read Floyd Toole's Sound Reproduction. It is a bargain and a must-read.
Well now, good luck
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For 1 and 2: You asked: "I want to know how to make a multi way speaker do the following" - a highly technical question. You got a technical answer. If you don't understand the technical jargon, then how can you realistically hope you will be able to make it ?
It's like asking "I want to know how to build a Ferrari" and hoping you will be given an Ikea building set.
For 3: you can't be serious
This whole forum is about "make it sound very pleasing and appealing but not in an obvious way" in 1000 different ways. If there was simple solution, everybody would have used it, right ?
i use a behringer 'ultrafex pro' multiband dsp processor. In addition to a bass and multiband processing sections, it has 'surround' processing. Note that its a 2 channel devic e, and the function increases depth and width of soundstage. I use it for movies. I suspect it merely adds a short reverberation. As Darwin says, its not really 'hi-fi' though.
This is not what I meant. If you use such a device you are adding reverb or changing the recording quite a lot. I wondered if the original depth in the recording can be magically removed or enhanced. I guess no such device is possible?
My TQWP speakers do this without any fancy electronics.
http://novelbooks.weebly.com/camm-dynatone-loudspeakers.html
http://novelbooks.weebly.com/camm-dynatone-loudspeakers.html
Hi,
*1: Add 2 (mono-summed works well too)) >= 42 mS(15m) signal delayed Bessel arrays= Best as phase is slightly 'scrambled, 5-6 element arrays= good enough) visually in a straight line behind(or use a wider azimuth) the main speakers(or simpler DBA:s) wall mounted adjusted to a level near JND, i.e. at or bit higher depending on source material. FR slope = 'Pink' ~3 dB/octave: BW~60-800Hz.
Interesting idea ! Some questions:
-what's the psycho-acoustic rationale of "FR slope = 'Pink' ~3 dB/octave: BW~60-800Hz" ? Making sure you induce a simulated far reflection only in the ITD range and avoid the "filler" speakers to attract attention on them ?
- what does "visually in a straight line behind" exactly mean ? a horizontally spread array of in-wall speakers from the L to the R loudspeaker ?
- how does it sound ?
Did you try it yourself ?Thanks !
lol mine too. I dont use dsp widening for music. An array is reputedly capable of throwimg a larger than life image. Im happy with a realistic size image.
The best 'electronics free' method to increase imaging clarity is the method most often quoted: speaker placement and minimal judicious use of reflective absorption.
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Dipole speakers. Only for enhancing (or restoring) though, not removing, and not so much magical.
I'd say from experience with my set;
#1: use dipole speakers (in a not too damped room)
#2: place woofers against the sidewalls (using an OSD placement might be even better but I'd have to build 4 extra towers/stands)
#3: use active crossovers/amplification and don't be afraid to use an equalizer (in moderation of course)
Working with a two-way speaker system, and the cross-over frequency equals about 2 kHz, it is possible to reflect the sound of the tweeter off of a nearby reflector that can be maybe 12" wide by 10" high towards the listening position. Assuming that you set the radius of curvature (concavity) of the reflector and the distance of the tweeter from the reflector correctly, then the sound of the speaker seems to originate from a point behind the speaker.
I've developed this reflecting method extensively.
Regards,
Pete
I've developed this reflecting method extensively.
Regards,
Pete
A conventional speaker will place sounds in between the speakers, or behind them by reproducing cues of the original acoustic space in the recording. Most people prefer this done well and room treatment can allow you to adjust the balance of direct to reflected sound.
Dipoles increase the sound stage depth due to the strong front wall reflection - basically they are creating a secondary phantom acoustic source - imagine that the front wall were a tinted glass mirror. The sound stage is made artifically deeper. It can be a desirable effect, especially with classical music where a live source is being reproduced that is much larger than the listening room. However, in other situations where you want a focused sharp image, dipoles don't perform as well. You don't get the same pinpoint imaging - I find that I notice it with vocals and HT use quite a bit. In other words, you pay a price to achieve this effect and you have to ask if it's really what you want.
Dipoles increase the sound stage depth due to the strong front wall reflection - basically they are creating a secondary phantom acoustic source - imagine that the front wall were a tinted glass mirror. The sound stage is made artifically deeper. It can be a desirable effect, especially with classical music where a live source is being reproduced that is much larger than the listening room. However, in other situations where you want a focused sharp image, dipoles don't perform as well. You don't get the same pinpoint imaging - I find that I notice it with vocals and HT use quite a bit. In other words, you pay a price to achieve this effect and you have to ask if it's really what you want.
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