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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 9th December 2012, 09:58 PM   #11
greyhnd is offline greyhnd  United States
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Okay folks, I snapped a few pics of this project. I'm hoping I do the pic attachment correctly because I hate to have the mods upset with my stupidity.
SAM_0035.jpg
Back of the cabinet
SAM_0041.jpg
Front of cabinet with speakers removed
SAM_0039.jpg
Xover
SAM_0040.jpg
Xover again\
SAM_0045.jpg
Stock Kenwood front
SAM_0046.jpg
Stock Kenwood back

Not sure if the pics help any, but they were requested in an earlier post. The cabinet dimensions are 14.5" H x 6.75" W x 6.75" D

I also moved both of the MCM speakers to the same cabinet and put the Kenwood speakers back in the same box. The difference was very clear. The MCM's had deeper bass, although not "deep" bass. The tweeter was still harsher than I like. I've re-capped crossovers a couple times, but I'm no guru by any stretch of the imagination, so I'm not sure if a bit of tweaking might solve some of the problem. I might just order a couple more from MCM and live with the results.

I also took a closer look at the Kenwoods and there is no marking as to the ohms, so it could be they are 4 ohm drivers.
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Old 9th December 2012, 10:57 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greyhnd View Post
The MCM's had deeper bass, although not "deep" bass.
More bass at a particular frequency, or more extended (lower frequency)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by greyhnd View Post
The tweeter was still harsher than I like.
You expected more from a 50 cent tweeter?

jeff
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Old 9th December 2012, 11:30 PM   #13
greyhnd is offline greyhnd  United States
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Jeff - In answer to your question, I'm going to say more extended frequency, which was the result I was looking for. The specs on the MCM website indicate frequency response from 50Hz to 17Khz and the only specs I can find on the Kenwoods is 100Hz to 20Khz. That would lead me to believe that even with the limitations of the crossovers, I should hear some improved bass. I may be able to tame the tweeter harshness a bit with an eq adjustment, but I haven't experimented much yet.
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Old 10th December 2012, 01:57 AM   #14
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Hi greyhnd, the ability to go down to 50Hz is VERY dependent on the box. You will only get that with a properly tuned vented enclosure. It will also need a steep filter at 50 Hz as the woofers will unload below that frequency.

The sim I did yesterday in a sealed enclosure showed rollof starting around 200Hz or higher (I can't remember exactly). Vented was fairly flat down to 50Hz but would need filtering below 50Hz.

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Old 10th December 2012, 02:25 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by BlueWizard View Post
Make Absolutely Positively beyond any Shadow of a Doubt sure that the new driver is wired properly. That in every case, the Red(+) of the amp, Red(+) of the speaker terminal, and the (+) of the drivers are connected.
That does not absolutely guarantee that they are in phase. There is a convention but it is not a standard rigorously adhered to.

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Old 10th December 2012, 02:55 AM   #16
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What is the value on the cap?

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Old 10th December 2012, 03:45 AM   #17
greyhnd is offline greyhnd  United States
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Dave - I looked at the cap on the crossover and couldn't get close enough to read it clearly. I'd like to take the crossover out and take a look, but I'm not exactly sure how tough that black gunk smeared all over it is. I have a couple caps left over from my project on my Polk Monitor 7 xovers. They are Erse MPX series 12uf, 250 volt caps. Probably not near what I need for these speakers, but have them nonetheless.

Tony - I may need to find a freebie box program and see what I can come up with. I'm also not quite clear on the methods for filtering. I know there's a limit to the amount of bass these little drivers can produce, but if I can get them close to their rated potential I might give it a try.
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Old 10th December 2012, 04:53 AM   #18
balerit is offline balerit  South Africa
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Just a note: Acoustic suspension speakers use drivers with rubber surrounds, pleated paper are for guitar/PA systems.
Regards Mac.
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Old 10th December 2012, 06:21 AM   #19
system7 is offline system7  United Kingdom
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These speakers are part of a Kenwood HTB-503 Home Theatre setup.

Kenwood HTB-503 Home-Theater-in-a-Box | Home Theater

They came with a subwoofer, so that explains a bit. Chances are the (guesses...4ohm...) woofers are plain wired in series to get the impedance up to 8 ohms. They might be wired in parallel for 4 ohms, however. Especially if they are 8 ohm drivers. Tweeter crossover is evidently a single NP capacitor around (guesses...) 2.2uF to a mylar dome.

To change the drivers is very unlikely to make any difference to the bass performance. That depends on the box largely, though you could add a bafflestep coil to give a relative boost to the bass along with some tweeter attenuation. You can buy a prebuilt 8 ohm 3kHz crossover like this:
HW 2/70 NG - 8 Ohm

When you do this sort of crossover redesign, you should be prepared to add a couple of 7W wirewound resistors to the tweeter to get the levels right. It's called an L-Pad, and it's simpler than it sounds:
http://www.diyaudioandvideo.com/Calculator/LPad/

You could also improve the cabinet damping with some rubbery stuff like carpet underlay stuck to the sides and top and bottom. They might sound quite HiFi then, and make nice little bookshelves for a small room music system.
Attached Images
File Type: png Kenwood_KS401HT_MTM.PNG (274.1 KB, 96 views)
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Last edited by system7; 10th December 2012 at 06:38 AM.
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Old 10th December 2012, 07:10 PM   #20
greyhnd is offline greyhnd  United States
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system7 - Thanks for your input. I knew that these were part of a HT System and not really designed to have much bass because of the sub. An l-pad was mentioned by another poster and that might be a good idea. I also have some sound deadening material left over from my car audio install.

I'm trying to get through my thick skull the significance of how the woofers are wired. I understand that the ohm load can change depending on the ohms of the drivers and the way they're wired. I'm assuming it matters in relation to the crossover? I should know the answer to that, but I'm over thinking it I guess.

I'm going to buy a couple more of the MCM woofers so everything matches. I also thought about putting a different cap on the existing crossover, but I have no idea what direction to go. Might just invest in a couple prebuilt xovers and L-Pads as you've suggested. Thanks for your thoughts and suggestions.
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