What gives the best sound? - Page 3 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Multi-Way

Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 9th December 2012, 10:40 PM   #21
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: New England
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew Eckhardt View Post
Harman scientists have found that listener preferences don't depend on age, nationality, preferred musical genres, or experience as a listener and produced formulas which do a good job predicting listener preference based on on-axis response,flatness smooth (probably as in first derivative versus frequency - I loaned out Toole's book to a friend) off-axis curves, and bass extension.
But is there consensus between the diyrs here and the Harman scientists?
__________________
"It's all about the music!"
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th December 2012, 11:09 PM   #22
dewardh is offline dewardh  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew Eckhardt View Post
Increasing your driver budget from $200 to $2000 or even $40,000 on drivers will have much less effect than getting the polar response right.
I think that's generally correct, but it does imply careful selection and implementation of the $200 drivers. Messed up polars is not the only thing that can go wrong
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th December 2012, 11:09 PM   #23
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by theaudiophile View Post
in what way are they superb? integration? And have you heard the latest B&W bookshelf speakers?
The qualifier was 'when done right'. This is general knowledge I picked up on this forum and many others. There is a school of thought that says the simpler and less complicated you make a speaker, the better it sounds. And there are several commercial manufacturers that successfully subscribe to this philosophy.

And which new B&W speaker are you referring to. For a somewhat reasonable amount of money, the B&W CM5 are a pretty sweet bookshelf. As with the whole CM series, the watch words are Clear and Detailed.

In the bookshelf vein, I recently heard some Dynaudio Xeo 3, which are 5" active speakers, but I was stunned by the quality of the bass, and the very wide and present sound stage. In a discussion on another group, some said the Xeo 3 was just an active version of the 695/pr Dynaudio Excite X12. But for a simply 2-way bookshelf speaker, I was very impressed with it.

The rated response was only down to 48hz (unqualified), but the perceived bass was very impressive without being excessive and not a hint of drone, and once again, incredible sound stage.

So, yes, when done right, basic 2-way bookshelf speakers can be superb ... when done right, and for a price.

Steve/bluewizard
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th December 2012, 11:40 PM   #24
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew Eckhardt View Post
Harman scientists have found that listener preferences don't depend on age, nationality, preferred musical genres, or experience as a listener and produced formulas which do a good job predicting listener preference based on on-axis response,flatness smooth (probably as in first derivative versus frequency - I loaned out Toole's book to a friend) off-axis curves, and bass extension.
Hummmm .... Listener Preference ... what does that mean? Several people listen to a group of speakers, and they all point at the same one and say "I prefer that one"?

I generally find, that any given piece of equipment regardless of what it is will be equally loved by some people and hated by others with no clear reason why.

I like to think I can identify a good speaker when I hear one. But, it gets dicey when it come to choosing between two good speakers.

Which sounds better, the 7000 Dali Helicon 800 with bass response of 31hz at -3db and Twin 8" bass drivers, or the 7600 Focal Electra II 1038BE with 33hz at -3dB and Three 7" bass drivers?

Well, it depends on who you ask. Both are stunning, but I was in a discussion with someone who was just ragging on Focal speakers. I've not heard the 1000 series, but I have heard the Focal 800 series (836V, 1899/pr) and I was very impressed. The music just hung in the air disembodied from amps or speakers. Impressive indeed. Very clear speakers.

So again, my point is, even under the best circumstances, there is a subjective element, and I suspect an element of some people just being contrary. The haters are going to hate.

But that said, I think most people believe that they can tell a good speaker from a not so good speaker. But I think you have to compare them side by side to truly know.

I auditioned the B&W 683 and thought they sounded great until I heard the B&W CM. Comparatively, once I heard the CM, the 600 series sounded blurred, but I would have never known had I not heard the CM series to contrast them to.

I auditioned some Canton Karat and some Mordant Short Performance ($$$$$), and they were very impressive. But I made the mistake of listening to some relatively cheap Moraunt Short Carnival 6 speakers, compared to the other two, the Carnival sounded like they were buried in a bale of cotton. But I suspect if I had only heard the Carnival that day, I would have thought they sounded OK ... just OK ... not great. But in contrast to better speakers, they just could not cut it.

I'm not sure what my point is - perhaps that all things are relative to the frame of reference. Which makes me wonder about the methodology of the Harman "listener preference" tests. I'm not saying it isn't true, just that I would like more details on exactly what that "listener preference" test involved.

For what it's worth.

Steve/bluewizard
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th December 2012, 12:12 AM   #25
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: New England
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueWizard View Post
So, yes, when done right, basic 2-way bookshelf speakers can be superb ... when done right, and for a price.

Steve/bluewizard
Here is a fine implementation of what you described....
Introducing the "INTIMATES" (high WAF & quality sound)
__________________
"It's all about the music!"
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th December 2012, 12:14 AM   #26
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: New England
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueWizard View Post
I would like more details on exactly what that "listener preference" test involved.

Steve/bluewizard
All the details are in Toole's book or, footed references.
__________________
"It's all about the music!"
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
how to mix sound from notebook and external sound card and get headphones output burence73 Headphone Systems 17 29th December 2012 08:58 PM
Sony TA-VE215 cracking sound/sound cutting out crowdome Solid State 4 2nd October 2012 04:39 PM
Kicker zx700.5 sub channel has humming sound and amp2 has echo like sound ivkata Car Audio 3 10th April 2012 10:23 PM
The Ultimate Sound Improving for Compact Disc's through Patent-Pend.CD Sound Improver tiefbassuebertr Digital Source 145 25th April 2011 08:39 PM
Eighteen Sound (18 Sound) NSD 1095N Compression Drivers and XT1086 Horns opc Swap Meet 6 1st May 2009 04:48 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 11:13 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2