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Old 9th December 2012, 05:04 PM   #11
pooge is offline pooge  United States
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Bruces recommended EVM15B driver has a Qes of .3 and a Qt of .297
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Old 9th December 2012, 07:34 PM   #12
djn is offline djn  United States
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Well, there you go
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Old 10th December 2012, 01:00 AM   #13
djn is offline djn  United States
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OK Pooge, you got me thinking. I have two 12" drivers I got some time ago and the fs is 18.84hz, the Qes is .4642 so using your formula of 2*fs/Qes I get 81.17 What does that represent? Is it 81hz or I don't know. Here is a screen shot of the woofers from WT3. Would these work well in a horn?
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File Type: png WT3 screenshot for Dell's woofer.png (90.1 KB, 386 views)
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Old 10th December 2012, 01:20 AM   #14
pooge is offline pooge  United States
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They wouldn't be good mid-bass horn drivers.
That formula is basically a figure of merit formula to get an idea how high in frequency it is usable.

So low fs is not that desirable. You want a highish fs, up to but under the lower crossover frequency, a low Qes, e.g., <.3, and a high BL factor above 20 or preferably higher, i.e., 23-30, which together indicate a whopping magnet and light cone able to work against the high acoustic load of the horn, i.e., against pressure.

Those drivers specs would indicate a sealed box use.

Last edited by pooge; 10th December 2012 at 01:23 AM.
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Old 10th December 2012, 04:40 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djn View Post
What crossover are you using? The MiniDSP might be a very good choice.
I am not currently using any kind of crossover, save the very simple passive one I have on the midrange horn, which is just a single capacitor, and a couple resistors to provide the small amount of attenuation needed. I have really top notch electronics, and I have no real desire to run everything through a processor, so I'm purely old school.

My sub (when I build it) will run on a separate amplifier, with an electronic tubed crossover- passive filters. I'm going horn loaded there, too- probably a straight exponential monster of some sort with these little Faital 15 inchers I've been using in my TLs.

I want to go all horn with this system, because one of my speaker building engineer friends calls the idea of horns ridiculous. He refers to them as "acoustic amplifiers", which in itself shows his complete lack of understanding as to how they actually work. He also owned and modded a pair of VOTs in the 70s, so he's "been there, done that" with horns- since they all sound like the VOT, of course…

So I'm doing this because I love horns, and because it'll **** that guy off righteously.

-And my system can play things that would bring his lil' sealed box babies to their KNEES.
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Old 10th December 2012, 08:16 AM   #16
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Run an active crossover.

which stereolab horn do you have ?
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Old 10th December 2012, 12:36 PM   #17
djn is offline djn  United States
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Sorry Corvus, Didn't mean to interrupt your thread.
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Old 27th January 2013, 07:32 PM   #18
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Default What was the outcome?

Having just battled a Hyperbolic profile mid bass horn over the weekend - I wondered what happened to this project?

I have a ~30lt - diver rear chamber, this is with a Kappa 15A. 30lt is very close to 1.1 cuft
I have to fiddle with the volume I think. Easy to extend the chamber if needed.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Corvus corax View Post
I am not currently using any kind of crossover, save the very simple passive one I have on the midrange horn, which is just a single capacitor, and a couple resistors to provide the small amount of attenuation needed. I have really top notch electronics, and I have no real desire to run everything through a processor, so I'm purely old school.

My sub (when I build it) will run on a separate amplifier, with an electronic tubed crossover- passive filters. I'm going horn loaded there, too- probably a straight exponential monster of some sort with these little Faital 15 inchers I've been using in my TLs.

I want to go all horn with this system, because one of my speaker building engineer friends calls the idea of horns ridiculous. He refers to them as "acoustic amplifiers", which in itself shows his complete lack of understanding as to how they actually work. He also owned and modded a pair of VOTs in the 70s, so he's "been there, done that" with horns- since they all sound like the VOT, of course…

So I'm doing this because I love horns, and because it'll **** that guy off righteously.

-And my system can play things that would bring his lil' sealed box babies to their KNEES.
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Old 5th December 2013, 02:35 PM   #19
Rewind is offline Rewind  Sweden
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I am also shopping for DIY midbass horns.

Silly of you not to use a sub from the start. But I did the same mistake. You can't listen properly without something extra below 80 or 100 Hz.

I am using a 12" JBL 2202H, that someone else tried in a midhorn and said they were not all that crisp as this. So I changed the dustcap to an aluminum one last night, and it sounds a little better actually. I will go ahead and build a smallish back chamber, and possibly also a phase plug, and see how that goes. What I want to do is to finish a build of a larger horn, because I believe these type of 12" drivers have more to bring to the table. Maybe I will go 15" or 18", but I fear I will lose an edge. To me, those big drivers (15"-18") seem to be a excuse for making a too small midbasshorn that will still have signal at 80Hz. The signal will probably not be hornloaded closer to 80Hz, or even 100hz, just above 200Hz. But I am just guessing, until I finish my larger builds.


I found this in a another forum where a guy called Andy was comparing the JBL 2202H and the B&C 12PE32. I do get the sense that the JBL 2202H really has a too heavy cone, which is also clear reading the parameters.

"Hi nutters
I'm currently using B&C 12PE32 as midbass with front horn and bassreflex rear. Midrange is quick and enuff clear, midbass not muddy. x/o points 120 & 1230Hz, both 24LR.

Could be using 2*12 per cab to get more kick (and dead weight, choose wisely?...). I haven't heard the 18sounds 12ND710, but by the parameters they could serve well (in horn). I'm anyway satisfied with B&Cs performance. Good bang for the buck.

Previous mids in same cabs were the JBL 2202H, they needed lower LP (800Hz) and still not so clear sounding, maybe the larger Mms was the culprit, despite the angrier BxL.

Andy"

Last edited by Rewind; 5th December 2013 at 02:48 PM.
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Old 5th December 2013, 04:09 PM   #20
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Corvus corax:

I am no expert but IMHO you need a mid bass horn that goes down 80hz at least. That extra 20hz lower cut off means a great deal. Bigger is better for sure. I am sure you know that DR. Bruces' favored driver for his mid bass horn is the EV 15b.

If you are getting a good match to your mid horn that is a major plus !

The best mid bass driver ever made IMHO is the Altec 515b. Great plains Audio makes an "identical" copy of the original. One or 2 of these drivers per side in a large box will knock you off your chair on good drum hits. These drivers can easily go up to 400+ hz with high efficiency and the best low midrange. Some people would try to push these drivers into subwoofer territory and that is NOT what they were designed for. For mid bass duty they are "king".

Hope this helps,
Joe

Good luck
Joe
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