2way vs 3way, same sound?

[Pano]

I basically agree with all of the above. A 3 way has the potential of sounding better, but you had better be good at crossover work. A 6.5" driver is already a mid to some of us so getting it to play up to a 1" tweeter should not be too hard.

[timlub]

There is no way to say that a 2 way or 3 way in general sounds better than the other, driver matching, box design, even the mid enclosure, crossover points and slopes all matter, but a 3 way allows to keep the crossover out of the vocal range, but if time alignment, phasing in the crossover and frequency peaks and dips are dealt with, either is excellent and they can sound equal if attention to detail is given, but never sound exactly the same.

[planet10]

Originally Posted by timlub

There is no way to say that a 2 way or 3 way in general sounds better than the other, driver matching, box design, even the mid enclosure, crossover points and slopes all matter

It comes down to execution. Driver choice is a big factor. We are always working within a budget. 2 drivers + 1 XO point, vrs 3 drivers + 2 XO points.

For me a 2-way has an XO between 150-400 Hz, 3 way adds an XO point at 50-60 Hz (i feel it is important that C-C is not greater (or much greater) than a 1/4 wl at the XO point).

If you follow the work of Toole & Geddes, mains should reach to ~80 hz, below that you use multiple separate woofers pkaced to give smooth in-room response.

dave

[timlub]

I don't post here often, so sorry, I don't know everyone, but I understood the op to be crossing a 1 in dome to a 6 1/2 compared to a 3 way.
Quote: "a 2-way has an XO between 150-400 Hz, 3 way adds an XO point at 50-60 Hz"
I would take that statement quoted as working with pro parts or a full range adding a very low frequency driver below the full range, but I do agree that Execution is everything.

[head_unit]

Originally Posted by leadcoma

But if I can get the on-axis in-room frequency response at the listening position to be the same, is the sound any different?

Yes. Because what you are talking about is just the magnitude in decibels of the sound. You are completely missing the TIME response.

Example: speaker A has an on-axis dip -3dB at 2 kHz, but off-axis output is very high. Measures 0 dB at the listening position.

Example: speaker B is flat on-axis at 2 kHz, but off-axis output is none.

The two speakers measure the same at the listening position, but the ratio of direct to reflected sound will be quite different as will the time arrival and smearing of said sound.

As for 2-way versus 3-way, if done very well, the 3 way *could* offer a nicer midrange, by having a driver dedicated to that and taking some load off the woofer and tweeter. But it has to be executed very well.

[planet10]

Originally Posted by timlub

I don't post here often, so sorry, I don't know everyone, but I understood the op to be crossing a 1 in dome to a 6 1/2 compared to a 3 way.

I would take that statement quoted as working with pro parts or a full range adding a very low frequency driver below the full range, but I do agree that Execution is everything.

Cone & dome is the typical way of doing it. It puts an XO right where the ear is most sensitive. Pushing the XO way down moves the XO to where the evils it brings can be diminished.



dave

[a.wayne]

Are you saying to xover to the tweeter at 150-200hz for a two way Dave ...?

[planet10]

The "tweeter" i use on the pictured speakers goes down to 100 Hz. XO at ~350 Hz. Bass extension into the mid 30s or lower.

1st order XO with drivers within <1/4 wl at XO so are essentially co-incident. 1st order XO. So they have no lobing, and are phase coherent.

dave

[Barleywater]

Have you measured IMD performance of tweeter in this speaker setup? Multi tone including 300Hz component?

Crossover point selection based on human vocal range rather than driver performance is recurring theme, and is poor design compromise.

Tweeter claiming performance down to <300Hz is classifiable as full range, and will be replete with IMD and break up issues.

Regards,

Andrew

[dewardh]

Originally Posted by planet10

It comes down to execution. Driver choice is a big factor.
. . .For me a 2-way has an XO between 150-400 Hz,

+1 . . .

Originally Posted by Barleywater

Tweeter claiming performance down to <300Hz is classifiable as full range,

Which I took to be dave's "tongue-in-cheek" point . . . there are a number of surprisingly (as in WTF??? surprising) good sounding and cheap 3-4" "full range" (not really, but that's what they call them) drivers which, for a given (low) price point, will outperform the "traditional" cone-pushed-too-high-to-dome-pushed-too-low introductory 2-way when combined with any of a number of inexpensive "woofers".

Typically what one "gives up" is "quality" in the range from 10 to 20 kHz. . . . but that has to be the most overpriced and under-delivering frequency band in all of audio . . .