Klinger horn cutout, Cargo cult or science? - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Multi-Way

Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 5th December 2012, 07:59 AM   #1
DrBoar is offline DrBoar  Sweden
diyAudio Member
 
DrBoar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Stockholm
Default Klinger horn cutout, Cargo cult or science?

Click the image to open in full size.

This is how the original horn put on short legs and the opening is facing the floor. As you can see there is a cutout on the lefthand side of the front, perhaps to lead the output to the front? Or is a way to increase the effective flare on the last half (17 cm) of the last flare

I have seen newer builds of the horn and even when the horns are seated upright they have that cutout at the mouth of the horn. It might be cargo cult that is doing things without understanding it is pointless. In Primo Levis boob The Periodic Table there is a fun example in paint manufacture of cargo cult. It is horn that has a good reputation so I thought I might have a go at them. To prepare I try to understand them before going from in silico to in "in MDF".

Any ideas or experiences?
TIA

Click the image to open in full size.

Last edited by DrBoar; 5th December 2012 at 07:59 AM. Reason: double posted image
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th December 2012, 09:14 AM   #2
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Pensacola, Florida
Default Kilinger Horn Notes

1) The principals of design and operation are not new. They were described in a paper [1] by Olson & Hackley in 1936.
2) Suspect the design anticipates a right and left hand version for corner placement. This would explain the need for the cutout to expand mouth area.
3) Expect the vertical mouth versions to unload the driver at a higher frequency
Regards
WHG

Reference [1]:
Title: Combination Horn and Direct Radiator Loud-Speaker
Authors: Olson, H.F.; Hackley, R.A.
Publication: Proceedings of the Institute of Radio Engineers, Year 1936, Volume: 24 , Issue: 12, Pages: 1557-1566
Digital Object Identifier: 10.1109/JRPROC.1936.228038
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Olson-AE-Fig6.38.pdf (246.5 KB, 50 views)

Last edited by whgeiger; 5th December 2012 at 09:21 AM. Reason: Refine Text
  Reply With Quote
Old 20th February 2013, 01:07 PM   #3
Ivo is offline Ivo  Netherlands
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Amsterdam
DrBoar, did you ever make an in-room measurement of this horn? I saw the in-mouth measurements on your blog, but am also interested in the in-room response. My hornresp models show a pretty deep dip at 100 Hz for combined response (hornmouth and driver), but Klinger recommends crossing over at 300Hz. I am curious if Klinger/Schmacks solved that dip through the use of softboard/weichfaser and folds like Olson (without reflectors). Both absorb the higher frequencies coming through the horn, thereby influencing the combined response as well. But hornresp cannot model that...
__________________
We want to be happy, bold and free
  Reply With Quote
Old 26th February 2013, 09:35 PM   #4
DrBoar is offline DrBoar  Sweden
diyAudio Member
 
DrBoar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Stockholm
No I did not do any in-room measurements, and now I have given the horn away, a guy actually stowed it awy in a VW Polo! Wit the outer shell adn the legs the total lenth was 115 cm I was impressed that you could get it inside a car substantially smaller than a Golf.

With the CBLH I used a reference for my in-room measurements, I simply first measrued a conventional speaker in the corner for the horn and then the acual horn, so the conventional box showed how much of the peaks and dips was caused by the room and not being intrinsic features of the horn.

I will revisit new horns but I have several project in the pipeline before that. I think the Klinger is more HiFi than the LaScala type but I am a sucker for that brutal slam of the latter. I might remeasure the Kuben horn using the Dayton OmniMic, I have som more 12" drivers, I could do distortion measurements and get more details than I got with the XTZ Room Analyzer II, that really is geared at room accoustics as the name imply.

Last edited by DrBoar; 26th February 2013 at 09:40 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd March 2013, 12:18 PM   #5
Ivo is offline Ivo  Netherlands
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Amsterdam
I see what you mean about the difference between LaScala and Klinger. In the end, I would choose extended range (Klinger) over ultimate dynamics (LaScala). Or, would try to find a combination of either.

The Klinger is a fairly long horn with a lot of losses due to sharp bends and no reflectors. Then the horn output is combined with the direct output of the driver itself. The LaScala is a lot shorter and does not have to combine output with driver output. Perhaps the best compromise between them would be the Klipsch Jubilee, for which plans are around (you can find them on my blog, which I hardly maintain anymore, Hornloudspeaker Magazine). I have a "someday" feeling about them, but the woodworking and cost (lot of material) scares me off. Also, to let them perform well with my own choice of midrange/treble, would require more skill and measuring/dsp technology than I currently have at my disposal.

I am also fascinated by this horn: Hörner

It's also from the Klingerbook, even right next to the one you and I built. Some simulations I did in Hornresp suggest response down to 25-35 Hz (large range, but I maintain a large margin of doubt with simulations). I have heard some reports from DIY-ers in Germany that love it. Deep and dynamic sound.

So many horns, so little time...
__________________
We want to be happy, bold and free
  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd March 2013, 03:50 PM   #6
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
I have listened to the Klinger, many years ago, in a club (it was called a Disco in those days) and in two demo rooms. I've never heard the La Scala but I don't think they should be compared. The Klinger was designed for mono with a full range speaker and standing as in the drawing with the floor acting as an extension to the mouth. As such I believe they would sound amazing compared to other solutions. As the low end of a two or three way system I can only say that it works.
Given my experience of hearing them as part of a PA system in a club I can only say that if You have the space and a need for a budget solution they will deliver.

BTW the "Hörner" is also known as Schmacks and as such they are quite well known in Sweden of all places.

I listen to Altec Lansing 19s at home, buy them if You have the space, they are not expensive now a days.
  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd March 2013, 03:57 PM   #7
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Is this thread moderated? My mentioning of me listening to Altec Lansing 19s should only be viewed as a reference to how I rate speakers, recommending them was a mistake in this thread.
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd March 2013, 06:25 PM   #8
DrBoar is offline DrBoar  Sweden
diyAudio Member
 
DrBoar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Stockholm
Well I am out of corners at my current home so I am thinking along the line of an other horn that has a longer path than LaScala.

I like the folding of this Swedish design. I am a bit suspicious about the very slow flare at all but the very last section and then that very steep final flare, having a more even flare might improve things. I really have to learn modelning in Hornresponse!

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Driver Cutout Tips ChrisR1983 Construction Tips 12 3rd December 2011 12:31 PM
terminal cup for 1-3/4 cutout? hkingman Parts 10 10th October 2011 09:09 AM
Is Club Polk a cult? jcandy Everything Else 0 9th September 2010 05:36 PM
Power supply cutout argonrepublic Everything Else 0 15th March 2006 06:09 PM
cult following and superstitions theChris Chip Amps 15 17th August 2003 05:20 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 08:58 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2