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Old 9th December 2012, 07:25 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planet10 View Post
There is nothing about the golden ratio that really sets it apart from every other (ir)rationally chosen set of box dimension ratios. Moving away from a rectangular box can have more positive impact. Are you building the wall around the speaker?
Yes, I am building the wall around the speaker. The speaker can literally be any size or shape I need it to be within reason. I've committed to going with that Volt driver Charles suggested. These are being built as main monitors, and I've experienced first hand the benefits of relieving a driver of low duties. My O300s cleaned up substantially when I added the sub. Being able to have a good idea of what is happening way down low is indispensable to an engineer.

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I would also not blindly build a 300 litre cabinet... a quite different cabinet would be optimum for the driver used full range vrs as a mid-tweeter.

Taking the T/S Colin pointed to, a 300 litre creates a VERY ugly alignment. A quick look, and using the techniques that have proven themselves well with the "miniOnkens" suggests something no larger than 55 litre for FR use.
55 litre is very reasonable. That would be nice.

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Aimingfor quality bass with the Tannoys alone would limit you to something like 55 Hz anechoic, but room gain will have a huge impact, likely takingit into the low 30s. Adding dedicated woofers should give at least that, with more impact, and clean up the midrange (biggest benefit)

I would add a small amp for the tweeters. A class D amplifier is probably not the best choice, their greatest deficits being at the top. A class A amp would be nice. The other way to approach (and likely the cheapest) would be a BIG class D amp for the bottom, perhaps a Hypex.

dave
True, I could keep 3B up top, 4B for the mid, and one of the MC2 amps Charles is suggesting for the very bottom. That's an option, depending on how much I anticipate the soffit construction/speaker building is going to run me.

Thanks for the help!
Mike
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Old 9th December 2012, 11:58 PM   #42
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I have 2 ML-TLs for the Volt in hand now. The small one would be 330 litre, but would be (close to) a floor to ceiling column. In room response should be into the teens.

dave
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Old 10th December 2012, 01:13 AM   #43
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I have 2 ML-TLs for the Volt in hand now. The small one would be 330 litre, but would be (close to) a floor to ceiling column. In room response should be into the teens.

dave
When you say "in hand", do you mean designs, or actual cabinets?
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Old 10th December 2012, 01:16 AM   #44
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I mean i have the raw dimensions from Scott (who designs the TLs & horns) -- any actual design will require some back & forth privately. If you want, noe that much of the detail has been trashed out in this thread, we can proceed on the subject of the email you sent at about the same time you started this thread.

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Old 10th December 2012, 01:30 AM   #45
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A practical question. How big is the room? Particularily the height.

dave
Well, this isn't the easiest question to answer but here it goes: It is basically a 22ft long by 18ft wide room. The front and rear walls splay out about 15 degrees left and right. That is simple, the height is another matter. At the front of the room the ceiling is only 7ft where I imagine the front of the soffit baffle will end up. The ceiling slopes like a standard roof upward quickly to 8ft, then we hit the collar ties, which I had installed at an angle. They slope upward 1ft for every 4ft of distrance, so when we get to the 68% spot in the room which is the client listening spot (mix position is at 36%) the ceiling height is at 10ft. We then hit the rafters there, and slope quickly down to 7ft again in the rear. I'm building acoustic hangers for the rear of the room, and under the soffit baffle, which will being the front and rear walls in a bit. Right now I've got some very nice membrane style bass traps made my Ethan Winer called real traps. I have a cloud over the the client listening spot, and a large cloud over the mix position.

I've never been able to calculate the volume of the room. Does that help at all? I'm going to take some pics.
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Old 10th December 2012, 01:32 AM   #46
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If you want, noe that much of the detail has been trashed out in this thread, we can proceed on the subject of the email you sent at about the same time you started this thread.

dave
I do want. Me thinks January will arrive very quickly.
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Old 10th December 2012, 02:20 AM   #47
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...the ceiling is only 7ft...
That leaves about a foot of wiggle room to adjust the height of the ML-TL to optomize driver position and still allow it to be supported by the floor.

eMail me.

dave
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Old 11th December 2012, 08:35 AM   #48
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Volt RV3863
Volt does not list this on their website... Wilmslow does. What's up with that?

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Old 11th December 2012, 11:59 AM   #49
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Volt haven't updated their website for about 10 years now.
You'll notice that their VM752 mid range is not mentioned at all even though it is freely available and they mention a number of pressed steel basket drivers they stopped making a long time ago.
The 3863 is a slight upgrade of the 3853 which ceased production.
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Old 11th December 2012, 01:29 PM   #50
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I would also not blindly build a 300 litre cabinet... a quite different cabinet would be optimum for the driver used full range vrs as a mid-tweeter.

Taking the T/S Colin pointed to, a 300 litre creates a VERY ugly alignment. A quick look, and using the techniques that have proven themselves well with the "miniOnkens" suggests something no larger than 55 litre for FR use.

dave
I assume that the 'VERY ugly alignment' you refer to is the bass shelf.
This is normal for vintage Tannoys and really not that bad. Basically the bass drops by about 3dB and then runs along the -3dB line until it hits the port frequency from where it will drop as usual for ported designs at 24dB/oct.
The way that is usually dealt with for full-range operation is to use a 300L cab and tune the port to driver Fs, not the 32Hz or so box calculators automatically assume. Most of the missing 3dB is made up by room gain when in actual use.
55L will give you about as much bass as a sealed cab ie you will lose the bottom 1 or 2 octaves completely.
Something like 130L ported will give a usable output down to 42Hz.

Tannoys are not really suited for passive Baffle Step Correction though but then I have never had the need for that in any speaker. Probably because all my speakers live close to the back wall and BSC ultimately leads to too loud and bloated bass. Soffit mounting obviously makes BSC completely pointless anyway though.
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