Yes, I am building the wall around the speaker. The speaker can literally be any size or shape I need it to be within reason. I've committed to going with that Volt driver Charles suggested. These are being built as main monitors, and I've experienced first hand the benefits of relieving a driver of low duties. My O300s cleaned up substantially when I added the sub. Being able to have a good idea of what is happening way down low is indispensable to an engineer.
55 litre is very reasonable. That would be nice.
True, I could keep 3B up top, 4B for the mid, and one of the MC2 amps Charles is suggesting for the very bottom. That's an option, depending on how much I anticipate the soffit construction/speaker building is going to run me.
Thanks for the help!
Mike
I mean i have the raw dimensions from Scott (who designs the TLs & horns) -- any actual design will require some back & forth privately. If you want, noe that much of the detail has been trashed out in this thread, we can proceed on the subject of the email you sent at about the same time you started this thread.
dave
dave
Well, this isn't the easiest question to answer but here it goes: It is basically a 22ft long by 18ft wide room. The front and rear walls splay out about 15 degrees left and right. That is simple, the height is another matter. At the front of the room the ceiling is only 7ft where I imagine the front of the soffit baffle will end up. The ceiling slopes like a standard roof upward quickly to 8ft, then we hit the collar ties, which I had installed at an angle. They slope upward 1ft for every 4ft of distrance, so when we get to the 68% spot in the room which is the client listening spot (mix position is at 36%) the ceiling height is at 10ft. We then hit the rafters there, and slope quickly down to 7ft again in the rear. I'm building acoustic hangers for the rear of the room, and under the soffit baffle, which will being the front and rear walls in a bit. Right now I've got some very nice membrane style bass traps made my Ethan Winer called real traps. I have a cloud over the the client listening spot, and a large cloud over the mix position.
I've never been able to calculate the volume of the room. Does that help at all? I'm going to take some pics.
That leaves about a foot of wiggle room to adjust the height of the ML-TL to optomize driver position and still allow it to be supported by the floor.
eMail me.
dave
Volt does not list this on their website... Wilmslow does. What's up with that?
dave
Volt haven't updated their website for about 10 years now.
You'll notice that their VM752 mid range is not mentioned at all even though it is freely available and they mention a number of pressed steel basket drivers they stopped making a long time ago.
The 3863 is a slight upgrade of the 3853 which ceased production.
You'll notice that their VM752 mid range is not mentioned at all even though it is freely available and they mention a number of pressed steel basket drivers they stopped making a long time ago.
The 3863 is a slight upgrade of the 3853 which ceased production.
I assume that the 'VERY ugly alignment' you refer to is the bass shelf.
This is normal for vintage Tannoys and really not that bad. Basically the bass drops by about 3dB and then runs along the -3dB line until it hits the port frequency from where it will drop as usual for ported designs at 24dB/oct.
The way that is usually dealt with for full-range operation is to use a 300L cab and tune the port to driver Fs, not the 32Hz or so box calculators automatically assume. Most of the missing 3dB is made up by room gain when in actual use.
55L will give you about as much bass as a sealed cab ie you will lose the bottom 1 or 2 octaves completely.
Something like 130L ported will give a usable output down to 42Hz.
Tannoys are not really suited for passive Baffle Step Correction though but then I have never had the need for that in any speaker. Probably because all my speakers live close to the back wall and BSC ultimately leads to too loud and bloated bass. Soffit mounting obviously makes BSC completely pointless anyway though.
Yes. I find it to be an unworthwhile exchange of quality for quantity. Any bass reflex i do has at most 1 crossing of zero of the 1st derivative of the simulated LF response.
If you miss bass, add a helper woofer, or time for a horn or TL.
dave
I don't miss bass from my Tannoys, I've got a 12" Volt radial in a t/l for that. Well I have two of those actually.
On the other hand if I were to run 15" Tannoys on their own I would not mind giving up a bit of quantity for extension. Never had an issue with the quality of the bass thus provided and you do get some level back from room gain. Just never put Tannoys free into the room but then again that is quite hard to do given the average room size and 300L cabs.
"Any bass reflex i do has at most 1 crossing of zero of the 1st derivative of the simulated LF response." I have no idea what you mean by this. Care to explain?
On the other hand if I were to run 15" Tannoys on their own I would not mind giving up a bit of quantity for extension. Never had an issue with the quality of the bass thus provided and you do get some level back from room gain. Just never put Tannoys free into the room but then again that is quite hard to do given the average room size and 300L cabs.
"Any bass reflex i do has at most 1 crossing of zero of the 1st derivative of the simulated LF response." I have no idea what you mean by this. Care to explain?
A zero crossong of the 1st derivative occurs whenever the FR changes from going up to going down or visa-versa.
dave
The trick is then to tune the box in such a way that the bass goes down,nearly levels out and goes down again steeper as all you need to do is avoid the bass going up at any point.
Which is basically the response the online calculator predicted for a 130L cab: A gradual fade of 3dB between 120Hz and 42Hz followed by a sharp continuous drop typical for ported cabs. At no point does the response rise, just the rate of drop varies.
One could of course tune them in a way that a response hump appears but that does make the bass sound bloated and 'one-noty' to my ears.
Which is basically the response the online calculator predicted for a 130L cab: A gradual fade of 3dB between 120Hz and 42Hz followed by a sharp continuous drop typical for ported cabs. At no point does the response rise, just the rate of drop varies.
One could of course tune them in a way that a response hump appears but that does make the bass sound bloated and 'one-noty' to my ears.
Not if you use high aspect ratio, high resistance vents to knock the hump down, leaving you with a box that is not nearly so sensitive to the dynamic changes in T/S parameters (and the subsequent dynamic changes in alignment.
dave
Is that similar to the concept behind PMC monitors?
The ATL? (Advance Transmission Line Speakers) from PMC® - YouTube
I think this applies to all boxed speakers, not just a big Tannoy. An much worse for a high Qts driver than for a low Qts driver.
It is a "trick" used by speaker manufacturers to kid on the listening public that their speaker has more bass than the competition.
Makes for horrible voice reproduction.
I've noticed this as well. It's one of the reasons I've preferred sealed designs I think. People complain about the relatively low output from sealed designs like my O300s (which I find ludicrous). I even suspect listeners are becoming accustomed to it, and miss it when it's not there. Drives me bonkers.
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.