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Old 28th November 2012, 11:57 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Actualsizeaudio View Post
I've read however that I need to make those measurements of my particular ones. Do you have an opinion on that?
Oh i do... those comments are typically from people who do not yet understand that T/S parameters are not scalars but curves. What numbers you get depend on where you are measuring them. Typical home measurement kit does not very often measure in the same place the industry standard kit does (LMS or LEAP) and the latter typical produce numbers that translate better into the real world results one gets when a box is actually made based on the data.

I am always leary of the numbers, but more often than not start with the factory numbers over anything i measure.

The recones were official factory units?

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I would imagine that Thiele/Small measurements change once a speaker is broken in? These drivers were in one of the Charisma records studios, so I imagine they saw some use!
Reconing should well have negated any break-in they ever had.

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Old 29th November 2012, 12:04 AM   #12
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I think the reason people build 4ft tall cabs is because they do not soffit mount them and that way they get the driver to ear height. There is no reason why you couldn't make them wider than tall.
Personally I prefer my speakers above ear height as in most studios.
Oh and Tannoy recommends listening about 15degrees off the central axis and this is how they measured them. I agree as the treble can be somewhat strident directly on axis.
Crossing them at around 175Hz removes a lot of cone movement and thus reduces intermodulation which I think is the reason for the increased midrange clarity.
It is still low enough to not reduce the point-sourciness of my Tannoys.

The Mackies passive radiator is kinda hidden behind the plate amp. It fires through narrow gaps if I remember correctly.
But you're right their bass is too much and quite mushy.
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Old 29th November 2012, 12:08 AM   #13
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Planet,
those hard-edge recones are a Lockwood Audio specialty but then again that is as near as factory as you can get as Lockwood has worked closely with Tannoy for about 50 years now. In my experience they know more about classic and vintage Tannoys than Tannoy themselves these days.
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Old 29th November 2012, 02:35 AM   #14
Bare is offline Bare  Canada
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They use the Hard edges cuz the earlier ones are NLA and those are cadged from still in production units :-)
Dustcap removal/deletion serves No proven purpose.. except to reduce Mfg costs.
WHY? would you even think that these need OR benefit from crossing them at 175 hz? That's is Really Strange.. Mate. First time I've ever heard that one.. After 40 years of owning Tannoys. You invent it all by yourself?
Erm what cone movement ?? Those cones are difficult to see any movement in at all actually
Note ~15 lbs of Alnico does a Fine job of controlling those cones.
Far better than some cheap Sub driver.IMO.
You would have to place a Door slab in front of the typ Tannoys to reduce their single point source 'sound'
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Old 29th November 2012, 06:15 AM   #15
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Default The Lockwood Audio "Hard Edge"

Hi, Mike!

I'm very intrigued by your refurbished HPDs as described. I also have corresponded with Lockwood Audio regarding replacement of the dreaded rotting foam surrounds with something more durable. Other than their claim that the TS parameters are unchanged, I was able to glean nothing useful (to a DIYer!) from their reply. I'd be very grateful if you could share some details - possibly even a close-up picture or two - about those "Hard Edge" surrounds. (If I'm not mistaken, the previous generation "Gold" had a narrower, pleated fabric surround, while versions prior to that had pleated paper surrounds.) I have been deliberating replacing mine with fabric, but the choice of half-roll (similar to the present foam type) or a pleated style is yet to be made. I suspect the intended enclosure design would play a role in this decision.

As for your plans to soffit mount your speakers, I can give you a big thumbs up on that idea. My primary house speakers (not the Tannoys) are built-in flush just above main-floor ceiling height, projecting into a 2-storey open area, and deliver a very nice sound throughout a large part of the living space on both levels. (Yeah - I'm not a "sweet spot" fan myself - music must be enjoyed while moving/doing!)

- Wilf
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Old 29th November 2012, 11:25 AM   #16
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Hi Bare,
I merely took inspiration from what Tannoy did with their top-of-the-range monitors ie FSM, Buckingham, Dreadnought and 215DMT.
Assuming that you are the same Bare as on the Tannoy Yahoo group I suppose you haven't been reading anything I posted there (albeit under a different name) over the last ten years or so but then that does not particularly surprise me.
Tannoy DCs can quite easily be improved upon by a) running them active and b) removing low bass from their duties.

The magnet size or material does not really do anything to control spurious cone movement. Amplifiers do that as you yourself keep pointing out regularly when you talk about your 20 amp current capabilities and removing the passive xover from between in between makes their job a lot easier in that regard.
And while Tannoy drivers are quite decent when it comes to bass they are not even in the same league as Volts. Describing them as 'cheap subdrivers' is an almost grotesque misrepresentation. And since you seem to have a hang up on magnet size Volt motors make Tannoys offerings look puny in comparison.
Btw the 175Hz came about because that way the drivers are easily still within 1/4 wavelength and so work a single source and it quite fairly shares the load so each part roughly covers roughly 3 octaves.

I love my Tannoys dearly and wouldn't want to be without them but that does not mean that I have to turn into an uncritical fanboy. There is ALWAYS room for improvement as nothing is perfect.
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Old 29th November 2012, 12:33 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bare View Post
They use the Hard edges cuz the earlier ones are NLA and those are cadged from still in production units :-)
Dustcap removal/deletion serves No proven purpose.. except to reduce Mfg costs.
I also prefer how they look with no dust cap, and since they serve no purpose, why put one on when you do a re-cone.

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Originally Posted by w_oswald View Post
Hi, Mike!
I'm very intrigued by your refurbished HPDs as described. I also have corresponded with Lockwood Audio regarding replacement of the dreaded rotting foam surrounds with something more durable. Other than their claim that the TS parameters are unchanged, I was able to glean nothing useful (to a DIYer!) from their reply. I'd be very grateful if you could share some details - possibly even a close-up picture or two - about those "Hard Edge" surrounds. (If I'm not mistaken, the previous generation "Gold" had a narrower, pleated fabric surround, while versions prior to that had pleated paper surrounds.) I have been deliberating replacing mine with fabric, but the choice of half-roll (similar to the present foam type) or a pleated style is yet to be made. I suspect the intended enclosure design would play a role in this decision.
The decision was sort of made for me on these, but the gentleman who sold them to me recommended it. I also like it because it looks a little more like my grand-pop's silver. The durability factor was big since I want my grand kid to get these. I'll post some close up pics of the 2 side by side today.

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Originally Posted by Charles Darwin View Post
Hi Bare,
I merely took inspiration from what Tannoy did with their top-of-the-range monitors ie FSM, Buckingham, Dreadnought and 215DMT.

I love my Tannoys dearly and wouldn't want to be without them but that does not mean that I have to turn into an uncritical fanboy. There is ALWAYS room for improvement as nothing is perfect.
I worked at a place that had 215DMTs. I loved them. I actually tried to buy a pair from Germany in the early days of ebay and got ripped off. They never showed up. I can't believe I brought that up, now I feel ill....

Anyway, I'm very much warming to idea of a bass driver built into the cabinet, and not going with a sub-woofer. The engineer who I work with, Bill Ryan, who used to work at Sony in NYC and is now the tech for the band Boston, told me the same thing you have about wanting to relieve the tannoys of having to perform low end duties. He was also the tech at Longview Farms (where I have also worked), and has serviced lot's of main systems running with Golds. I assumed he was talking about frequencies below 80hz, but like I said, with a digital active crossover these are decisions that can be made at a later date.

Boy am I excited. This project is going to up the coolness level of my room exponentially. If I wasn't working on mixes these next 2 weeks I'd get out the sledge hammer and skill saw today.
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Old 29th November 2012, 12:57 PM   #18
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This is a must read before you do your own active filtering.
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Old 29th November 2012, 06:59 PM   #19
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Boy am I excited. This project is going to up the coolness level of my room exponentially. If I wasn't working on mixes these next 2 weeks I'd get out the sledge hammer and skill saw today.
Keep working on those mixes!
You'll have to pay for those woofers somehow and Volt RV3863s cost $550 a pop at Solen. I'd recommend this amp to drive them:
http://www.mc2-audio.co.uk/images/st..._datasheet.pdf

In fact I would not be surprised if you'd swap your Brystons for the Tannoys as well, finances allowing. They are really, really good!!!

If you want to go really low stick those Volts into a transmission line like PMC XB3s. I've built XB2 copies for my 12" Volts and they are sweet.


PS: Longview Farm looks like a well sexy studio indeed! I couldn't go there because I'd drool over everything (especially the Studer A800) and would thus get booted out in no time!
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Old 29th November 2012, 07:14 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Darwin View Post
Keep working on those mixes!
You'll have to pay for those woofers somehow and Volt RV3863s cost $550 a pop at Solen. I'd recommend this amp to drive them:
http://www.mc2-audio.co.uk/images/st..._datasheet.pdf

In fact I would not be surprised if you'd swap your Brystons for the Tannoys as well, finances allowing. They are really, really good!!!

If you want to go really low stick those Volts into a transmission line like PMC XB3s. I've built XB2 copies for my 12" Volts and they are sweet.


PS: Longview Farm looks like a well sexy studio indeed! I couldn't go there because I'd drool over everything (especially the Studer A800) and would thus get booted out in no time!
My budget for the project is 6K, and I really can't go over that. I'm about half way there already with the new drivers, the MiniHD, and a used Bryston 3B I picked up. Rebuilding the front wall will be at least another grand. So, I have a little wiggle room, but not a lot.

Longview was a storied place, and I worked there as a PT editor with Living Colour, Mos Def (for about a day), and then another independent artist I brought in. I didn't spend nearly enough time there. It was a magic place, and I'm very sad it is gone.

I notice those amps have fans, would I need to stick them in a machine room?
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